I am not able to clearly understand the problems of bottom up approach against which Domain Driven Design advocates. Can someone please write briefly or nudge me in the write direction?
What I mean is, in Sql world we have entities represented by tables, they have relations, constraints and so on. So now how is the new approach of starting with classes as entities as proposed by DDD will benifit us? But before that, as the questions indicates, I need to understand the problems posed by bottom up approach.
In SapiensWorks Mike explain it very well:
The Domain should not be tainted with infrastructure details. If you
start with the db (botton up approach), everything will evolve around
it and will be constrained by it. But you don't build the application
for the database, you build it for the Domain, the database is just a
Persistence implementation detail.
The domain is the reason the application exists and everything should
gravitates around it. The domain should not depend on anything,
especially not on a persistence implementation details. When you
design the Domain Entities, they should don't know anything about
persistence.
I suggest you to read the complete post before continue reading here.
If you design persistence schemas first you are not taking Domain into account; not completely and with the deep needed, at least. You are designing for efficience, redundancy, normalization, relations, etc not behaviour and later you will create entities that fits into that persistence scheme. Suddenly, you will find meaningless, strange and weird things done in your entities just to match persistence schema, persistence implementation and/or persistence technologies unless you make iterations of persistence redesign.
Both aproaches, entities designed to fit persistence and persistence redesign iterations, are bad. The first one because bad entity design and SOLID breaks; the second one because is extra work and a waste of time.
How is the new approach of starting with classes as entities as
proposed by DDD will benifit us?
Good entity design (what it means good Domain modeling) and/or not wastig time in persistence design iterations.
Related
I've got a question on my mind that has been stirring for months as I've read about DDD, patterns and many other topics of application architecture. I'm going to frame this in terms of an MVC web application but the question is, I'm sure, much broader. and it is this: Does the adherence to domain entities create rigidity and inefficiency in an application?
The DDD approach makes complete sense for managing the business logic of an application and as a way of working with stakeholders. But to me it falls apart in the context of a multi-tiered application. Namely there are very few scenarios when a view needs all the data of an entity or when even two repositories have it all. In and of itself that's not bad but it means I make multiple queries returning a bunch of properties I don't need to get a few that I do. And once that is done the extraneous information either gets passed to the view or there is the overhead of discarding, merging and mapping data to a DTO or view model. I have need to generate a lot of reports and the problem seems magnified there. Each requires a unique slicing or aggregating of information that SQL can do well but repositories can't as they're expected to return full entities. It seems wasteful, honestly, and I don't want to pound a database and generate unneeded network traffic on a matter of principle. From questions like this Should the repository layer return data-transfer-objects (DTO)? it seems I'm not the only one to struggle with this question. So what's the answer to the limitations it seems to impose?
Thanks from a new and confounded DDD-er.
What's the real problem here? Processing business rules and querying for data are 2 very different concerns. That realization leads us to CQRS - Command-Query Responsibility Segregation. What's that? You just don't use the same model for both tasks: Domain Model is about behavior, performing business processes, handling command. And there is a separate Reporting Model used for display. In general, it can contain a table per view. These tables contains only relevant information so you can get rid of DTO, AutoMapper, etc.
How these two models synchronize? It can be done in many ways:
Reporting model can be built just on top of database views
Database replication
Domain model can issue events containing information about each change and they can be handled by denormalizers updating proper tables in Reporting Model
as I've read about DDD, patterns and many other topics of application architecture
Domain driven design is not about patterns and architecture but about designing your code according to business domain. Instead of thinking about repositories and layers, think about problem you are trying to solve. Simplest way to "start rehabilitation" would be to rename ProductRepository to just Products.
Does the adherence to domain entities create rigidity and inefficiency in an application?
Inefficiency comes from bad modeling. [citation needed]
The DDD approach makes complete sense for managing the business logic of an application and as a way of working with stakeholders. But to me it falls apart in the context of a multi-tiered application.
Tiers aren't layers
Namely there are very few scenarios when a view needs all the data of an entity or when even two repositories have it all. In and of itself that's not bad but it means I make multiple queries returning a bunch of properties I don't need to get a few that I do.
Query that data as you wish. Do not try to box your problems into some "ready-made solutions". Instead - learn from them and apply only what's necessary to solve them.
Each requires a unique slicing or aggregating of information that SQL can do well but repositories can't as they're expected to return full entities.
http://ayende.com/blog/3955/repository-is-the-new-singleton
So what's the answer to the limitations it seems to impose?
"seems"
Btw, internet is full of things like this (I mean that sample app).
To understand what DDD is, read blue book slowly and carefully. Twice.
If you think that fully fledged DDD is too much effort for your scenario then maybe you need to take a step down and look at something closer to Active Record.
I use DDD but in my scenario I have to support multiple front-ends; a couple web sites and a WinForms app, as well as a set of services that allow interaction with other automated processes. In this case, the extra complexity is worth it. I use DTO's to transfer a representation of my data to the various presentation layers. The CPU overhead in mapping domain entities to DTO's is small - a rounding error when compared to net work calls and database calls. There is also the overhead in managing this complexity. I have mitigated this to some extent by using AutoMapper. My Repositories return fully populated domain objects. My service layer will map to/from DTO's. Here we can flatten out the domain objects, combine domain objects, etc. to produce a more tabulated representation of the data.
Dino Esposito wrote an MSDN Magazine article on this subject here - you may find this interesting.
So, I guess to answer your "Why" question - as usual, it depends on your context. DDD maybe too much effort. In which case do something simpler.
Each requires a unique slicing or aggregating of information that SQL can do well but repositories can't as they're expected to return full entities.
Add methods to your repository to return ONLY what you want e.g. IOrderRepository.GetByCustomer
It's completely OK in DDD.
You may also use Query object pattern or Specification to make your repositories more generic; only remember not to use anything which is ORM-specific in interfaces of the repositories(e.g. ICriteria of NHibernate)
I am quite new with DDD and would like to know about any pitfalls you might want to share. I will summarize it later for more newbies to read :)
Thanks
Summary so far:
Anemic domain model where your entities are primarily only data bearing and contain no business logic
Not using bounded contexts enough
Focusing too much on patterns
There is a good presentation on this topic as well here (video).
Probably the most important one: not grokking the central, fundamental principle of the Domain Model and its representation in Ubiquitous Language. With the plethora of technology options around, it's very easy for your head to fill up with ORMs, MVC frameworks, ajax, sql vs nosql, ... So much so there's little space left for the actual problem you're trying to solve.
And that's DDD's key message: don't. Instead, explicitly focus on the problem space first and foremost. Build a domain model shorn of architectural clutter that captures, exposes and communicates the domain.
Oh, and another one: thinking you need Domain Services for everything you can do in the domain model. No. You should always first try to put domain logic with the Entity/Value type it belongs to. You should only create domain services when you find functions that don't naturally belong with an E/V. Otherwise you end up with the anaemic domain model highlighted elsewhere.
hth.
One of the biggest pitfalls is that you end up with a so-called anemic model where your entities are primarily only data bearing and contain no business logic. This situation often arises when you build your domain model on top of an existing relational data model and just make each table in the database an entity in your domain model.
You might enjoy presentation of Greg Young about why DDD fails.
In short:
Lack of intent
Anemic Domain Model
DDD-Lite
Lack of isolation
Ubiquitous what?
Lack of refinement
Proxy Domain Expert (Business analyst)
Not using bounded contexts enough. It's toward the back of the the big blue book but Eric Evans has gone on record as saying that he believes that bounded contexts and ubiquitous language are THE most important concepts.
Similarly, people tend to focus too much on the patterns. Those aren't the meat of DDD.
Also, if you do not have a lot of access to domain experts you are probably not doing DDD, at best you are DDDish.
More concretely, if you end up with many-to-many relationships, you've probably designed something wrong and need to re-evaluate your aggregate roots/contexts
Only adding to what others have already said;
My personal experience is that people often end up with an anemic model and a single model instead of multiple context specific models.
Another problem is that many focus more on the infrastructure and patterns used in DDD.
Just because you have entities and repositoriesand are using (n)Hibernate it doesn't mean you are doing DDD.
It's not from my personal experience with subject, but it was mentioned for a couple of times in DDD books and it's what I've been thinking about recently: use Entities when you really need identity, in other cases use Value Object. I.e., Entity pattern often happens to be the default choice for any model noun, and it's not the way it should be.
Beware of the Big Ball of Mud.
One of the pitfalls of domain driven design is to introduce ambiguity into a model. As explained in the article Strategic Domain Driven Design with Context Mapping:
Ambiguity is the super-villain of our
Ubiquitous Language
This may happen when two distinct concepts share the same name, or when the same concept can have different uses. It may be necessary to
expose the domain structure in
terms of bounded contexts in a context
map
If a model is used in too many different ways, or has too many responsibilities, it may be a sign that it should be divided.
I'm really new to DDD and trying to grasp some of the concepts.
Could someone explain me the idea behind Domain Modeling in DDD.
I have already gone through wikipedia explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_model but still seems like there are some gray areas in my understanding.
Based on what I understood, domain modeling involves building a model around the business entities to express their relationships, express the entities that participate in the model etc..
Isn't this something that has been in practice always? in Object Oriented world, you model business entities into classes, objects etc.. and build the software around this.
What I do not understand is the emphasis Domain Modeling gets in DDD. Is it the same object/class modeling that you find in OO world, or is this something new to DDD ?
How does it differ from Object Oriented design/modeling?
Your answers are highly appreciated.
One distinction is that a "proper" implementation of the Domain Model Pattern in DDD is isolated from cross-cutting concerns.
For example, it contains nothing to do with databases or other persistence. Where it contains validation logic, it is business validation, not "does the name exceed the column length?" validation.
The idea is that the domain model encapsulates "the business" -- in business terms ("ubiquitous language"), to the extent possible -- and exposes relevant aspects of the business to "the program" without acquiescing to the needs of the software.
On the flip side, "the software" is concerned with IO, UI, and the like, but delegates all business logic to the domain model.
In principle, you can wrap your domain model up in an assembly and use it across multiple applications. When business rules change, as they do, you have one very logical place in which to affect the changes (because the model is a 1:1 or nearly-so representation of the relevant aspects of the business and is described in the same terms as the business).
The Domain in DDD does not need to be implemented in OO. In my experience an OO domain model is usually best, but there are very valid examples of situations in which it may not be.
You might implement a domain in rules, with a rule engine (example in The Netherlands where this is done for a large mortgage application). Or you might do it in a functional language. The essence is that your domain, in however fashion it is implemented, is isolated from what I usually call the technical aspects of your application (or, as the previous answer calls it, cross-cutting concerns, although I think there may very well be cross-cutting concerns within a domain). An isolating layer, which may be implemented using adapters, makes the domain as much as possible, even completely, independent from the technicalities. This layer usually leverages patterns such as Facade and Observer.
I am on a tight schedule with my project so don't have time to read books to understand it.
Just like anything else we can put it in few lines after reading books for few times. So here i need some description about each terms in DDD practices guideline so I can apply them bit at a piece to my project.
I already know terms in general but can't put it in terms with C# Project.
Below are the terms i have so far known out of reading some brief description in relation with C# project. Like What is the purpose of it in C# project.
Services
Factories
Repository
Aggregates
DomainObjects
Infrastructure
I am really confused about Infrastructure, Repository and Services
When to use Services and when to use Repository?
Please let me know if anyway i can make this question more clear
I recommend that you read through the Domain-Driven Design Quickly book from infoq, it is short, free in pdf form that you can download right away and does its' best to summarize the concepts presented in Eric Evan's Blue Bible
You didn't specify which language/framework the project you are currently working on is in, if it is a .NET project then take a look at the source code for CodeCampServer for a good example.
There is also a fairly more complicated example named Fohjin.DDD that you can look at (it has a focus on CQRS concepts that may be more than you are looking for)
Steve Bohlen has also given a presentation to an alt.net crowd on DDD, you can find the videos from links off of his blog post
I've just posted a blog post which lists these and some other resources as well.
Hopefully some of these resources will help you get started quickly.
This is my understanding and I did NOT read any DDD book, even the holy bible of it.
Services - stateless classes that usually operate on different layer objects, thus helping to decouple them; also to avoid code duplication
Factories - classes that knows how to create objects, thus decouple invoking code from knowing implementation details, making it easier to switch implementations; many factories also help to auto-resolve object dependencies (IoC containers); factories are infrastructure
Repository - interfaces (and corresponding implementations) that narrows data access to the bare minimum that clients should know about
Aggregates - classes that unifies access to several related entities via single interfaces (e.g. order and line items)
Domain Objects - classes that operate purely on domain/business logic, and do not care about persistence, presentation, or other concerns
Infrastructure - classes/layers that glue different objects or layers together; contains the actual implementation details that are not important to real application/user at all (e.g. how data is written to database, how HTTP form is mapped to view models).
Repository provides access to a very specific, usually single, kind of domain object. They emulate collection of objects, to some extent. Services usually operate on very different types of objects, usually accessed via static methods (do not have state), and can perform any operation (e.g. send email, prepare report), while repositories concentrate on CRUD methods.
DDD what all terms mean for Joe the plumber who can’t afford to read books few times?
I would say - not much. Not enough for sure.
I think you're being quite ambitious in trying to apply a new technique to a project that's under such tight deadlines that you can't take the time to study the technique in detail.
At a high level DDD is about decomposing your solution into layers and allocating responsibilities cleanly. If you attempt just to do that in your application you're likely to get some benefit. Later, when you have more time to study, you may discover that you didn't quite follow all the details of the DDD approach - I don't see that as a problem, you proabably already got some benefit of thoughtful structure even if you deviated from some of the DDD guidance.
To specifically answer your question in detail would just mean reiterating material that's already out there: Seems to me that this document nicely summarises the terms you're asking about.
They say about Services:
Some concepts from the domain aren’t
natural to model as objects. Forcing
the required domain functionality to
be the responsibility of an ENTITY or
VALUE either distorts the definition
of a model-based object or adds
meaningless artificial objects.
Therefore: When a significant process
or transformation in the domain is not
a natural responsibility of an ENTITY
or VALUE OBJECT, add an operation to
the model as a standalone interface
declared as a SERVICE.
Now the thing about this kind of wisdom is that to apply it you need to be able to spot when you are "distorting the definition". And I suspect that only with experience (or guidance from someone who is experienced) do you gain the insight to spot such things.
You must expect to experiment with ideas, get it a bit wrong sometimes, then reflect on why your decisions hurt or work. Your goal should not be to do DDD for its own sake, but to produce good software. When you find it cumbersome to implement something, or difficult to maintain something think about why this is, then examine what you did in the light of DDD advice. At that point you may say "Oh, if I had made that a Service, the Model would be so nmuch cleaner", or whatever.
You may find it helpful to read an example.:
I've always developed code in a SOA type of way. This year I've been trying to do more DDD but I keep getting the feeling that I'm not getting it. At work our systems are load balanced and designed not to have state. The architecture is:
Website
===Physical Layer==
Main Service
==Physical Layer==
Server 1/Service 2/Service 3/Service 4
Only Server 1,Service 2,Service 3 and Service 4 can talk to the database and the Main Service calls the correct service based on products ordered. Every physical layer is load balanced too.
Now when I develop a new service, I try to think DDD in that service even though it doesn't really feel like it fits.
I use good DDD principles like entities, value types, repositories, aggregates, factories and etc.
I've even tried using ORM's but they just don't seem like they fit in a stateless architecture. I know there are ways around it, for example use IStatelessSession instead of ISession with NHibernate. However, ORM just feel like they don't fit in a stateless architecture.
I've noticed I really only use some of the concepts and patterns DDD has taught me but the overall architecture is still SOA.
I am starting to think DDD doesn't fit in large systems but I do think some of the patterns and concepts do fit in large systems.
Like I said, maybe I'm just not grasping DDD or maybe I'm over analyzing my designs? Maybe by using the patterns and concepts DDD has taught me I am using DDD? Not sure if there is really a question to this post but more of thoughts I've had when trying to figure out where DDD fits in overall systems and how scalable it truly is. The truth is, I don't think I really even know what DDD is?
I think a common misconception is that SOA and DDD are two conflicting styles.
IMO, they are two concepts that work great together;
You create a domain model that encapsulates your domain concepts, and expose entry points into that model via services.
I also don't see what the problem is with ORM and services, you can easily use a session/uow per service call.
Just model your service operations as atomic domain commands.
a naive example:
[WebMethod]
void RenameCustomer(int customerId,string newName)
{
using(var uow = UoW.Begin())
{
var customerRepo = new CustomerRepo(uow);
var customer = customerRepo.FindById(customerId);
customer.Rename(newName);
uow.Commit();
}
}
Maybe the problem you are facing is that you create services like "UpdateOrder" which takes an order entity and tries to update this in a new session?
I try to avoid that kind of services and instead break those down to smaller atomic commands.
Each command can be exposed as an operation, or you could have a single service operation that receives groups of commands and then delegate those to command handlers.
IMO, this way you can expose your intentions better.
The most important things about Domain-Driven Design are the big picture ideas:
the ubiquitous language,
the strategic decision-making where you are adding value by working in the core domain (and insulating yourself from other nasty systems), and
the approach to making testable, flexible designs by uncoupling infrastructure from business logic.
Those are broadly applicable, and are the most valuable pieces.
There is a lot of design-pattern stuff about Factories, Services, Repositories, Aggregates, etc., I take that as advice from one experienced developer to another, not as gospel, because so much of it can vary depending on the language and frameworks that you're using. imho they tend to get overemphasized because programmers like us are detail-oriented and we obsess on that kind of stuff. There is valuable stuff there too, but it needs to be kept in perspective. So some of it may not be that relevant to you, or it might grow on you as you work with it.
So I would say it's not like there's a checklist that you can run through to make sure you're using all the patterns, it's a matter of keeping the big picture in mind and seeing how that changes your approach to developing software. And if you pick up some good tips from the patterns that's great too.
Specifically with respect to the SOA thing, I've developed applications that defer all their state to the database, which have used persistence-ignorant domain objects. Writing tests for services that have to mock daos and feed stuff back is drudgery, the more logic I can put in the domain objects the less I have to mess with mocks in my services, so I tend to like that approach better.
There are some concepts introduced with DDD which can actually confuse you when building SOA.
I have to completely agree with another answer, that SOA-services expose operations that act as atomic commands. I believe that a very clean SOA uses messages instead of entities. The service implementation will then utilize the domain model to actually execute the operation.
However there is a concept in DDD called a "domain service". This is slightly different than an application service. Typically a "domain service" is designed within the same ubiquitous language as the rest of the domain model, and represents business logic that does not cleanly fit into an entity or value.
A domain service should not be confused with an application service. In fact, an application service may very well be implemented such that it uses a domain service. After all, the application services can fully encapsulate the domain model within SOA.
I am really really late in this, but I would like to add the following in the very good answers by everyone else.
DDD is not in any conflict with SOA. Instead, DDD can help you maintain a better Service Oriented Architecture. SOA promotes the concept of services, so that you can define better boundaries (oh, context boundary is also a DDD concept!) between your systems and improve the comprehension of them.
DDD is not about applying a set of patterns (e.g. repository, entities etc.). DDD is mostly about trying to model your software, so that all the concepts (i.e. classes in case of object-oriented programming) align directly with concepts of the business.
You should also check this video (especially the last 5 minutes), where Eric Evans discusses exactly this topic.
I've even tried using ORM's but they just don't seem like they fit in
a stateless architecture.
I don't have any reference handy to back this up. However, you're right, ORMs do not fit nicely with DDD as well. This is because, they're trying to bridge the object-relational impedance mismatch, but in a wrong way. They force the software towards an anemic domain model, where classes end up being "plain data holders".
I am starting to think DDD doesn't fit in large systems but I do think
some of the patterns and concepts do fit in large systems.
In the video I've linked above, you can also find Eric explaining that DDD concepts can "break" in very large-scale systems. For instance, imagine a retail system, where each order is an aggregate containing potentially thousands of order items. If you'd like to calculate the order's total amount strictly following DDD, you'd have to load all the order items in memory, which would be extremely inefficient compared leveraging your storage system (e.g. with a clever SQL statement). So, this trade-off should always be kept in mind, DDD is not a silver bullet.
Like I said, maybe I'm just not grasping DDD or maybe I'm over
analyzing my designs?
Excuse me, but I'll have to quote Eric Evans one more time. As he has said, DDD is not for perfectionists, meaning that there might be cases, where the ideal design does not exist and you might have to go with a solution, which is worse in terms of modelling. To read more around that, you can check this article.