The two Haskell web frameworks in the news recently are Yesod (at 0.8) and Snap (at 0.4).
It's quite obvious that Yesod currently supports a lot more features than Snap. However, I can't stand the syntax Yesod uses for its HTML, CSS and Javascript.
So, I'd like to understand what I'd be missing if I went with Snap instead. For example, doesn't look like database support is there. How about sessions? Other features?
Full disclosure: I'm one of the lead developers of Snap.
First of all, let's talk about what Snap is. Right now the Snap team maintains five different projects on hackage: snap-core, snap-server, heist, snap, and xmlhtml. snap-server is a web server that exposes the API defined by snap-core. heist is a templating system. xmlhtml is an XML/HTML parsing and rendering library used by heist. snap is an umbrella project that glues them all together and provides the powerful snaplets API that makes web apps composable and modular.
Yesod has a host of projects on hackage. Most (all?) of them are listed in the Yesod category. Some of the notable ones are yesod-core, warp, persistent, and hamlet.
The reality of Haskell web development is that it's much less of an exclusive-or choice than seems to be perceived. In general the projects are very loosely coupled and fairly interchangeable. You could build a website using warp (the Yesod team's web server), heist (the Snap team's template system), and acid-state (the Happstack project's persistence system). You could also use snap-server with hamlet or persistent.
That said, the two projects definitely have some differences. The biggest difference I can point out objectively is that Yesod projects typically make heavy use of Template Haskell and quasiquoting to create concise DSLs, while Snap projects stick to building combinator libraries that favor composability. Just about any other differences I can think of will be subjectively biased towards Snap. The umbrella packages named after both projects are obviously going to make specific choices for the above mentioned components, and these choices will be reflected in the project dependencies. But that still doesn't mean that you can't pull in something different and use it as well.
Snap does have sessions and authentication, interfaces to several databases, and nice form handling (here and here) using digestive-functors that includes prepackaged support for arbitrarily nested dynamically sizable lists. These are just some of the growing ecosystem of pluggable snaplets. The sessions and authentication snaplets are written in a way that is back-end agnostic. So with a small amount of glue code you should be able to use it with just about any persistence system you can think of. In the future, Snap will stick with this policy as often as possible.
For the most part I think the choice of Snap vs Yesod vs Happstack is less an issue of features and more one of personal taste. Whenever someone says that one of the frameworks doesn't have something that another one has, most of the time it will be pretty easy to pull in the missing functionality from the other framework by importing the necessary package.
EDIT: For a more detailed comparison of the big three Haskell web frameworks check out my recent blog post. For a rougher (but possibly more useful) comparison using some broader generalizations, see my Haskell Web Framework Comparison Matrix
Fair warning: I'm the lead developer of Yesod.
I'm not sure what you don't like about the Javascript syntax: it is plain javascript with variable interpolation. As for CSS Yesod now has Lucius which allows you to also use plain CSS. For HTML, you can easily use any other library you want, including Heist (what Snap uses). That said, it's a bit of a funny thing to skip Yesod over CSS/Javascript syntax, when Snap doesn't even have a syntax for it. You are certainly welcome to their solution of just static files.
Yesod comes with seamless support for authentication/authorization, type-safe URLs, widgets, email, and a bunch of little things all over the place (breadcrumbs, messages, ultimate destination). Plus, Yesod has a fairly rich set of add-on packages for things like comments and markdown, and a few large real-world code bases to pick at for examples. If any of these are attractive to you, you might want to check if your alternatives supports them.
Give hamlet a try- you might end up liking it. A negative reaction at a superficial level is not uncommon. However, nobody that has actually used hamlet complains.
Also, why not use Happstack? Just because they aren't "in the news" doesn't mean they don't have a solid framework.
You probably referring to old version of yesod. Latest yesod versions have plain syntax for html, javascript and css.
The html syntax of yesod's template library hamlet is plain html with complete opening and closing tags and all normal html attributes. Yes you can omit closing tags and use shortcuts for id and class attributes. But you do not have to. You can continue to write plain html.
Not only that but html templates can reside in separate files, just like in Snap's template library Heist.
Java script templates (julius) are plain javascript files, also residing in separate files.
The css template does indeed have a different syntax, but recent version of yesod now provides also plain css syntax.
If you go with Heist you will not have type safe urls.
In Heist html templates are read from harddrive everytime. Yesod compiles all templates directly into the executable. No file is read from harddrive. Thus the response is much faster. You can see the benchmarks yourself.
In Yesod you can create widgets that cooperate nicely. Snap does not deal with widgets at all. You will have to roll your own.
Related
I am planning to write a yesod web application. And I'm wondering whether there are some large project using yesod that is well designed that I could look at and experiment with.
I am looking for open source projects. I can learn from.
I've been developing a web application that focuses on media sharing mainly inside home network, and acted as a excercise for me.
This was the first project for me using Yesod, and in fact the first larger project written in Haskell, but maybe there is something to learn from it.
There's stuff like reused widgets, custom sql queries (could probably use esquelato nowadays), hashdb authentication/access control and plugin-like sections-thingy for handling different types of files in share.
Disclaimer: This is my personal project developed purely for my needs, and I have not had the time to upgrade the code base for Yesod 1.2 nor do I consider it stable or well-designed.
The source code: https://github.com/SimSaladin/rnfssp
An in-production demo can be found at https://ssdesk.paivola.fi
As an update for this answer there is now a page of these on the Yesod wiki, including the source for my own site.
Is there a module or similar things that support skinning in NodeJS? I want to build a NodeJS website, and want to be able to re-skin the website as I like without much efforts, like in Wordpress.
Is skinning supported in NodeJS?
If you're interested in building a website in Node.js and don't need a wordpress-style cms behind it, there are few projects that can help you out.
Have you looked into Bootstrap? It's built with less which you can easily plug in to your Express setup (see the guide here, using the command line executable to set up a new project you can specify less like this: express --css less myapp and it will do all the work for you)
In the bootstrap less file are several variables you can use to change the colours, fonts, sizes, etc, and it's also got a lot of helpers for grid layouts and responsive designs.
It even includes a few useful javascript plugins too which make the ui nicer with less work.
There are also a lot of sites with themes and theme generators around which then work on top of bootstrap, and may achieve what you want.
Plugging in this sort of solution (whether bootstrap or other) is about as close as you can come to getting skinning for node; As otherwise suggested if you're looking for a CMS out of the box as well, probably best to look for another platform like Wordpress.
Node.js is not a content management system. It is a platform on top of which you could built a web server with a content management system. To answer your question you need to be looking for node.js based content management systems that support themes.
The only node.js CMS that I am aware of is Calipso. It's still pretty alpha-stage. It may have some theming support, but it is nowhere near as polished as Wordpress.
Also is there a reason why you want to use node.js? I mean there is nothing wrong in using Wordpress for creating a themeable website - it is just awesome for that.
If you just want another OnlineShop, or maybe a blog, i think nodejs is maybe not your right choose as Jed Watson told.
If your requirements are more complicated, and you want a quick and easy implementation of a nice web interface, and you have html, javascript, and css knowledge... I strongly recommend you just trying to work with MEAN.js
It puts together MongoDB Expressjs, AngularJs, and NodeJs.
Use this, for example with a yeoman fullstack constructor and you will have a powerful webapp, with user autentication, and much more in a few minutes.
After that, the use of jade, less, scss, and similar languages of modelling the front, and the easy way you can also model collections in the back, is for me the best combination you´ll find for creating a website today.
Hope it´ll help you
King Regards
What is the best language and approach to build the widgets website like http://www.pageflakes.com/. By best I mean rapid development, performance, smoothness and by approach I mean that some one will use drag and drop plug in jQuery (some issues) etc.
Two functionality will be main in my site:
selecting the widget and then dragging on the specified position i like
saving the state without login for the user.
You don't mention your existing language skills which might be the most important detail here. Also, are you prepared to learn a new language/framework for this project?
Some generic advice assuming you would be using Java: since the site in consideration looks more like a web application as opposed to a "web site", a framework which supports rich controls/Ajax natively might work wonders here. A GWT based framework like SmartGWT might be an interesting candidate.
I'm starting work on a new website (sort of an e-commerce product comparison thing) and I'm trying to choose what technologies to build it on. I've ruled out PHP and I don't think I want to use Python or Ruby. I really like Java and Hibernate so I started looking into Java-based web technologies.
My problem is that all of the documentation and examples I've read can't seem to stop repeating the words "enterprise" and "web applications." I'm afraid of ending up with giant XML configuration files and business-oriented components while losing the ability to actually design the website. From what I've read of JSF, I like the idea of reusable components, but I still want the ability to customize individual pages. So my question is, are JSF/Seam/Spring well-suited for non-enterprise development? If not, what Java technologies are?
I have just started looking into JSF/Seam so please forgive me if this is an uninformed quesiton. Thanks in advance. :)
No problem. The JSF/Seam stack gives you all the customization you want, and it has very few XML files. In fact, it uses a lot of annotations to define entities and components, so you don't have to worry about writing tou much XML (it is one of the reason why Seam was invented).
JSF's standard components are rendered as simple HTML tags, while if you want to go AJAX and use Richfaces it will be a little harder to customize it, but nothing dramatic. I can assure you that for the view part, you can write whatever you want in your webpages.
Here's a nice reference of how the JSF tags are rendered.
For the model and DB part, the JPA framework gives you the ability to work with simple Java Objects, and sometimes using it in an "enterprise" context with legacy schema is even more difficult, so don't worry.
For a simple website you may safely skip the EJB part, this will help you writing a more cleaner project structure. You can package all your website in a simple .WAR file.
As for the "enterprise" word, I think it is more related to the fact that the Java EE framework gives you the feature you may need in an enterprise context, (i.e. EJBs), but you can avoid them.
They don't bite.
Since I don't really have a good idea for word to search with myself I’d like to ask you:
Is there some project, technology, w/e that enables you to build a 'browser' with a very slim ui. Just some CI and a customised "starting page".
I'm thinking of something like the Webkit engine (and interface) Valve/Steam uses for it's clients store page.
In what direction should I search for something like that ? How would one start implement something like that ?
Answers to questions:
We need this to provide something like a "Kiosk" application (for touchscreens) and shippable to our Customers. Running a browser in "full screen" is a temporary solution.
As of Platforms: Windows is absolutely sufficient for now, but Mac/Linux wouldn't hurt.
Prism looks nice so far but lacks the "shippable" part, e.g. I see no way of packaging it.
Take a look at Mozilla Prism. It's a "UI-Less" version of the Mozilla/Gecko rendering engine aimed at deploying web apps on the Desktop. It's also multi-platform. It might be fairly close to what you need, with comparably little work.
WebKit has bindings for many languages, is cross-platform, and is full-featured as a HTML engine. A bit of work capturing signals and calling functions will make it into any kind of web browser you like.
You could use Adobe Air, follow this tutorial and include your website within an iframe. That would allow you to build an executable you can ship to your customer.
Various graphics toolkit libraries contain some components which can display a limited amount of HTML. I've seen this in qt (a C++ GUI library) and in Java Swing, and have indeed built a tiny "browser" in Java within a couple of hours. Java Swing lets you attach a link listener so links can be made clickable and thereby jump to different URLs. Thus, my application could be made to work as a very limited browser.
This approach lets you display text, images and links; in the case of Java, there's even fairly good support for CSS styling. However, there's no simple way to make buttons and form fields work, and of course no support for manipulating the DOM or anything else done in JavaScript.