At http://nodejs.org/#about it says the following:
"Node is similar in design to and
influenced by systems like Ruby's
Event Machine or Python's Twisted.
Node takes the event model a bit
further—it presents the event loop as
a language construct instead of as a
library."
Are there other frameworks or languages that likewise expose the event loop?
Tcl has had this capability all along (last 2 decades). See http://www.tcl.tk/about/netserver.html
This is not to say Tcl does -- or should do -- everything Javascript and/or node.js does. But it is a valid answer to the question as to what "other frameworks or languages ... likewise expose the event loop?"
To be honest, I don't think there is something that's comparable to Node.js at the moment.
Why? Well basically because of the fact that JavaScript was single threaded from the start off, this made the language evolve in what it is today, a language that's perfectly fit for asynchronous programming, like you do it in Node.js.
Functions being first class objects, as well as having closures is a must if you want a Node like experience. For example you could just as well wrap plain C around the event lib and use that. But how much fun would that be? Even with twisted, you don't get even near the Node.js experience.
Second point is that Node.js has - except for the sync functions of the fs modules - no blocking functions, so while you can certainly do this style of programming in Python, you never know for sure if that library call isn't going to block your whole program. And kill the throughput of your server.
Also Node is fast, like in REALLY fast. V8 is definitely way ahead of Python and Ruby, yes you can write C-Extensions for both, but you can just as well do that for Node.js. Another plus point of using V8, Google is investing a ton of time/money into that Engine, another up to 2x improvement is already on the way with Crankshaft.
Node.js has more plus points, it's a complete framework (while Twisted is mainly async networking) and it's JavaScript.
The latter one may sound stupid, but the ability to re-use code and not having to do context switching , as well as being able to use mature frameworks for DOM manipulation (well, that is as soon as jsom gets into a more stable state) is another killer feature.
If you haven't done yet, I recommend you watch a couple of the talks listed on our Tag Wiki.
Especially the YUI one shows what possibilities await us in the near future.
So to sum it all up:
Although there are quite some frameworks out there that have an event loop, just having the loop itself won't give you the same experience as Node.js, so you should not expect a comparable experience when doing stuff in C or Java for example.
For the java platform I guess you could compare netty to node.js
Related
As a platform for handling concurrent problems, Elixir/OTP seems to be the best suited solution.
When writing an application with a web interface, consider the case in which I want to reason about, and decouple, the application logic using another functional language - namely haskell (due to benefits like its advanced detection of errors at compile time, static typing, etc). I would then handle concurrency using GenServers, and attach a web interface using Phoenix.Channels.
Is this setup even possible using NIFs? Also, would true concurrency be maintained? I'm not sure that I'm following the correct line of reasoning here, but would a new haskell process be able to be spawned in line with GenServer demands, and would the two be able communicate efficiently?
This setup is certainly possible using NIFs and GHC's FFI with a small amount of boilerplate written in C. But NIFs are best used for short synchronous computations with no side effects and I get the feeling that that isn't what these operations are.
You'd probably be better off with C Nodes for the Haskell parts of the application. Most of the documentation you'll find for that will be for Erlang and not Elixir, but given Elixir's easy interop with Erlang, it should be pretty straight forward (someone's even written an example). Most of the hard work will be to do with writing a Haskell "C Node", for which a cursory glance at hackage and github turns up nothing.
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I'm investigating building a web app in part with Koa, but I don't quite have a handle on the hows, whens, and whys of choosing between - and applying - the range of supportive "making async easier" technologies/approaches (listed below).
Overall the disparate guidance on the web about this subject still leaves things blurry, especially in respect to evolving best practices, or at least better ones, and under what scenarios. There seems to be little or nothing on the web that puts it all in context.
I'm hoping the responses to this big arse sprawling post can correct that. Also maybe the questions below can inspire someone to write a thorough blog post or the like to address this matter. My sense is I'm not even close to the only one who would benefit from that.
So I'd be pleased if the bright community could help answer and provide clarity to the following questions in respect to the technologies listed below (in bold type):
-- a) How, and under what circumstance (as applicable) are they complements, supplements, substitutes, and/or overlapping solutions to one another?
-- b) What are their trade-offs in respect to speed-performance, error handling ease, and debugging ease?
-- c) When, where, and why may it be better to use "this" versus "that" technology, technologies-combo, and/or approach?
-- d) Which technologies or approaches, if any, may be "dimming stars".
(Hoping that the opinions that are part of answers can be well explained.)
==============================
Technologies:
* Koa *
My understanding:
Koa is a minimal foundation for build Node apps geared for taking advantage of ECMAScript-6 features, one feature in particular being generators.
* Co *
My understanding:
-- Co is a library of utilites for running ECMAScript-6 generators (which are native to Node .011 harmony), with the goal to allieve some/much(?) of the need to write boilerplate code for running and managing generators.
-- Co is intrinsically part of Koa(?).
Specific questions:
-- If and how does one use Co differently in Koa than in a non-Koa context. In other words, does Koa wholly facade Co?
-- Could Co be replaced in Koa with some other like generator library if there is/was a better one? Are there any?
* Promise Libraries such as "Q" and Bluebird *
My understanding:
-- They are in a sense "polyfills" for implmententing the Promises/A+ spec, if and until Node natively runs that spec.
-- They have some further non-spec convenience utilities for facilitating the use promises, such as Bluebird's promisfyAll utility.
Specific questions:
-- My understanding is the ECMAScript-6 spec does/will largely reflect the Promises/A+ spec, but even so, Node 0.11v harmony does not natively implement Promises. (Is this correct?) However when it does, will technologies such as Q and Bluebird be on their way out?
-- I've read something to the effect that "Q" and Bluebird support generators. What does this mean? Does it mean in part that, for example, they to some degree provided the same utility as Co, and if so to what degree?
* Thunks and Promises *
I think I have an fair handle on what they are, but hoping someone can provide a succinct and clear "elevator pitch" definition on what each is, and of course, as asked above, to explain when to use one versus the other -- in a Koa context and not in it.
Specific questions:
-- Pro and cons to using something like Bluebird's promisfy, versus say using Thunkify (github com/visionmedia/node-thunkify)?
==============================
To give some further context to this post and its questions, it might be interesting if Koa techniques presented in the following webpages could be discussed and contrasted (especiallly on a pros vs cons basis):
-- a) www.marcusoft . net/2014/03/koaintro.html (Where's the thunks or promises, or am I not seeing something?)
-- b) strongloop . com/strongblog/node-js-express-introduction-koa-js-zone (Again, where's the thunks or promises?)
-- c) github . com/koajs/koa/blob/master/docs/guide.md (What does the "next" argument equate to, and what set it and where?)
-- d) blog.peterdecroos . com/blog/2014/01/22/javascript-generators-first-impressions (Not in a Koa context, but presents the use of Co with a promise library (Bluebird), so I'm assuming the technique/pattern presented here lends itself to usage in Koa(?). If so, then how well?
Thanks all!
I've been working almost extensively with generators for a month now so maybe I can take a stab at this. I'll try to keep the opinions to a minimum. Hopefully it helps clarify some of the confusion.
Part of the reason for the lack of best practices and better explanations is that the feature is still so new in javascript. There are still very few places that you can use generators node.js and firefox being the most prominent, though firefox deviates from the standard a bit.
I would like to note that there are tools like traceur and regenerator that will let you use them for development and allow you to turn them into semi-equivalent ES5 so if you find working with them enjoyable then there's no reason not to start using them unless you're targeting archaic browsers.
Generators
Generators weren't originally thought of as a way to handle asynchronous control flows but they work wonderfully at it. Generators are essentially iterator functions that allow their execution to be paused and resumed through the use of yield.
The yield keyword essentially says return this value for this iteration and I'll pick up where I left off when you call next() on me again.
Generator functions are special functions in that they don't execute the first time they're call but instead return an iterator object with a few methods on it and the ability to be used in for-of loops and array comprehensions.
send(),: This sends a value into the generator treating it as the last value of yield and continues the next iteration
next(),: This continues the next iteration of the generator
throw(): This throws an exception INTO the generator causing the generator to throw the exception as though it came from the last yield statement.
close(): This forces the generator to return execution and calls any finally code of the generator which allows final error handling to be triggered if needed.
Their ability to be paused and resumed is what makes them so powerful at managing flow control.
Co
Co was built around the ability of generators to make handling flow control easier. It doesn't support all of the things that you can do with generators but you can use most of them through it's usage with less boilerplate and headache. And for flow control purposes I haven't found that I needed anything outside of what co provides already. Although to be fair I haven't tried sending a value into a generator during flow control but that does bring up some interesting possibilities....
There are other generator libraries out there some of them that I can think of off the top of my head are suspend, and gen-run. I've tried them all and co offers the most flexibility. Suspend may be a little easier to follow if you're not accustomed to generators yet but I can't say that with authority.
As far as node and best practices go I'd say co is currently winning hands down with the amount of support tools that have been created to go with it. With suspend the most likely runner up.
Co works with both promises and thunks and they are used for yield statement so that co knows when to continue execution of the generator instead of you manually having to call next(). Co also supports the use of generators, generator functions, objects and arrays for further flow control support.
By yielding an array or an object you can have co perform parallel operations on all of the yielded items. By yielding to a generator or generator function co will delegate further calls to the new generator until it is completed and then resume calling next on the current generator, allowing you to effectively create very interesting flow control mechanisms with minimal boilerplate code.
Promises
While I said I'd keep opinions to a minimum I would like to state that to me promises are probably the hardest concept to grasp. They are a powerful tool for maintaining code but they are hard to grasp the inner workings of and can come with quite a few gotchas if used for advanced flow control.
The easiest way that I can think of to explain promises is that they are an object returned by a function that maintains the state of the function and a list of callbacks to call when the a specific state of the object is or has been entered into.
The promise libraries themselves won't be going anywhere anytime soon. They add a great deal of nice to haves for promises included done() which didn't make it into the ES6 spec. Not to mention the fact that the same libraries can be used on the browser and in node we'll have them for a good long while.
Thunks
Thunks are just functions that take a single parameter callback and return another function that they are wrapping.
This creates a closure that allows the calling code to instantiate the function passing in its callback so that it can be told when the method is complete.
Thunks are fairly straight forward to understand and use in my opinion but they aren't the right tool for everything. For example spawn is a major pain to create a thunk for, you can do it but it's not easy.
Thunks vs. Promises
These aren't mutually exclusive and can easily be used together, but it's usually better for your sanity to pick one and stick with it. Or at the very least pick a convention so you can easily tell which is which. Thunks run faster from my experience but I haven't benchmarked it. Most of this is probably because it's a smaller abstraction and doesn't have error handling mechanisms built in.
You'll usually be building something that requires error handling though so the overall performance gains of thunks could easily even out or side in the favor of promises depending on your code.
When to Use
Generators - When you can safely say that your application will be able to run on the bleeding edge, whether it's firefox only for the browser or node > 0.11.3
I've been using them extensively at the company I'm out now and couldn't be happier with the control flow mechanisms and lazy evaluation that they allow.
Promises vs. Thunks - This is really up to you and how comfortable you are working with each. They don't provide the same benefits nor do they solve the same problem. Promises help deal with the async problem directly, thunks just ensure a function takes the needed callback parameter for other code to pass in.
You can use them both together and as long as you can keep it so that it's obvious which is which you won't have a problem.
Promises/Thunks with Generators - I suggest doing this anytime you are using generators for control flow. It's not necessary but it's easier just like using co as an abstraction for control flow with generators is easier. Less code to type, easier maintenance, and less possibilities that you'll hit an edge case that somebody else hasn't run into yet.
Koa
I'm not going to go into a lot of detail on koa. Suffice it to say that is similar to express but written to take advantage of generators. This does give it some unique advantages such as easier error handling and cascading middleware. There were ways to accomplish all of these tasks before but they weren't elegant and sometimes not the most performant.
Special Note:
Generators open up a door of possibilities that we really haven't explored yet. Just like they can be used for control flow when that wasn't their initial design I'm positive they can be used to solve a lot of other problems that we normally have problems with in javascript. It will probably be brighter minds than me that find out how else we can use them but I'd at least start playing around with them and getting a better understanding of what they're capable of. There's still more goodies for generators coming in ES.next.
The readline library and most other modules are geared towards asynchronous/event-based user input handling.
I need my application to block and wait for input before continuing. Is there a way to do this or is this simply not supported in Node.js?
I know this goes against the philosophy of Node.js but this is not what I am worried about - the application I am developing is not a conventional web application, I am just using Node.js to develop it.
There are numerous libraries for javascript that makes it easier to work with async. You can look here for one example: https://github.com/creationix/step .
I do most of my node.js programming using CoffeeScript, and there is a fork of the official compiler called IcedCoffeeScript that has support for await and defer keywords, that allows you to write CPS/callback-style programming without endless cascading of callbacks. You can find it here: http://maxtaco.github.com/coffee-script/ .
And finally, a free tip. When/if you start writing your own modules you may struggle with figuring out whether you should write it in a CPS/callback-style or not. When you struggle with this choice, always write it in a CPS/callback style, and use await/defer or any other javascript library to make it look and feel like traditional synchronous programming. Writing your own functions in a non-callback style and using libraries that primarily support callback-style programming is a recipe for disaster.
I've been playing around with node.js (nodejs) for the past few day and it is fantastic. As far as I can tell, lua doesn't have a similar integration of libev and libio which let's one avoid almost any blocking calls and interact with the network and the filesystem in an asynchronous manner.
I'm slowly porting my java implementation to nodejs, but I'm shocked that luajit is much faster than v8 JavaScript AND uses far less memory!
I imagine writing my server in such an environment (very fast and responsive, very low memory usage, very expressive) will improve my project immensly.
Being new to lua, I'm just not sure if such a thing exists. I'll appreciate any pointers.
Thanks
A recent corresponding project is Luvit "(Lua + libUV + jIT = pure awesomesauce)".
From the announcement:
this is basically luajit2 + libuv (the event loop library behind
nodejs). It compiles as a single executable just like nodejs and can
run .lua files. What makes it different from the stock luajit
distribution is it has several built-in modules added and some
slightly different semantics.
Notice that we're not running as a CGI script to apache or anything
like that. The lua script is the http server. You get your
callback called every time an http request is made to the server.
Looks like the following is exactly what I was looking for:
LuaNode https://github.com/ignacio/LuaNode
See lualibevent and lua-ev and also Lua Gem #27
You might also have a look at luv:
https://github.com/richardhundt/luv
from the lua mailing list:
How does luv relate to Luvit - LuaJIT + libuv (Node.js:s/JavaScript/Lua/)?
It doesn't really. Luvit borrows heavily from node.js's architecture
(reactor callbacks, etc.), links statically against luajit, provides
it's own module system and executable. Luv is just a Lua module which
binds to libuv. The key difference is that Luv is more like an m-n
threading engine combining coroutines and OS threads while using the
libuv event loop under the hood.
So other than the fact that they both bind to libuv, they don't have
much in common.
You might want to take a look at Luvit or a gander at the Lua Github site. I think it takes the approach of implementing Node.js functionality right inside Lua. You write Lua code on the client side and on the server side. Here is a description of Luvit approach to doing Node.js functionality in Lua.
if i understood the question right, take a look at http://openresty.com/
luvit aims to be to Lua exactly what Node.js is to Javascript. Definitely a promising project.
You can get node.js style non-blocking IO with lua-handlers.
It even has an async. HTTP Client, which makes it really easy to start parallel HTTP requests. See the test_http_client.lua file as a example of the HTTP client interface.
You should also check out Lapis. It's a very lightweight and fast framework for OpenResty: http://leafo.net/lapis/
I've really been enjoying it and predict it will have a bright future!
As you would expect with anything built to leverage OpenResty, it's benchmarks are insanely good: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r12&hw=peak&test=query
The author of Lapis also wrote a CoffeeScript-like language for Lua called MoonScript which is quite nice:
http://moonscript.org/
So, I got this idea that I'd try to prototype an experimental user interface using OpenGL and some physics. I know little about either of the topics, but am pretty experienced with programming languages such as C++, Java and C#. After some initial research, I decided on using Python (with Eclipse/PyDev) and Qt, both new to me, and now have four different topics to learn more or less simultaneously.
I've gotten quite far with both OpenGL and Python, but while Python and its ecosystem initially seemed perfect for the task, I've now discovered some serious drawbacks. Bad API documentation and lacking code completion (due to dynamic typing), having to import every module I use in every other module gets tedious when having one class per module, having to select the correct module to run the program, and having to wait 30 seconds for the program to start and obscure the IDE before being notified of many obvious typos and other mistakes. It gets really annoying really fast. Quite frankly, i don't get what all the fuzz is about. Lambda functions, list comprehensions etc. are nice and all, but there's certainly more important things.
So, unless anyone can resolve at least some of these annoyances, Python is out. C++ is out as well, for obvious reasons, and C# is out, mainly for lack of portability. This leaves Java and JOGL as an attractive option, but I'm also curious about Ruby and Groovy. I'd like your opinion on these and others though, to keep my from making the same mistake again.
The requirements are:
Keeping the hell out of my way.
Good code completion. Complete method signatures, including data types and parameter names.
Good OpenGL support.
Qt support is preferable.
Object Oriented
Suitable for RAD, prototyping
Cross-platform
Preferably Open-Source, but at least free.
It seems you aren't mainly having a problem with Python itself, but instead with the IDE.
"Bad API documentation"
To what API? Python itself, Qt or some other library you are using?
"lacking code completion (due to dynamic typing)"
As long as you are not doing anything magic, I find that PyDev is pretty darn good at figuring these things out. If it gets lost, you can always typehint by doing:
assert isinstance(myObj, MyClass)
Then, PyDev will provide you with code completion even if myObj comes from a dynamic context.
"having to import every module I use in every other module gets tedious when having one class per module"
Install PyDev Extensions, it has auto-import on the fly. Or collect all your imports in a separate module and do:
from mymodulewithallimports import *
"having to select the correct module to run the program"
In Eclipse, you can set up a default startup file, or just check "use last run configuration". Then you never have to select it again.
"before being notified of many obvious typos and other mistakes"
Install PyDev Extensions, it has more advanced syntax checking and will happily notify you about unused imports/variables, uninitialized variables etc.
Looking just at your list I'd recommend C++; especially because Code Completion is so important to you.
About Python: Although I have few experience with OpenGL programming with Python (used C++ for that), the Python community offers a number of interesting modules for OpenGL development: pyopengl, pyglew, pygpu; just to name a few.
BTW, your import issue can be resolved easily by importing the modules in the __init__.py files of the directory the modules are contained in and then just importing the "parent" module. This is not recommended but nonetheless possible.
I don't understand why nobody has heard of the D programing language?
THIS IS THE PERFECT SOLUTION!!!!
The only real alternative if you desire all those things is to use Java, but honestly you're being a bit picky about features. Is code completion really that important a trait? Everything else you've listed is traditionally very well regarded with Python, so I don't see the issue.
The text editor (not even an IDE) which I use lets you import API function definitions. Code completion is not a language feature, especially with OpenGL. Just type gl[Ctrl+I] and you'd get the options.
I tried using Java3D and java once. I realized Java3D is a typical Java API... lots of objects to do simple things, and because it's Java, that translates to a lot of code. I then moved to Jython in Eclipse to which cleaned up the code, leaving me with only the complexity of Java3D.
So in the end, I went in the opposite direction. One advantage this has over pure python is I can use Java with all of Eclipse's benefits like autocomplete and move it over to python when parts get unwieldy in Java.
It seems like Pydev can offer code completion for you in Eclipse.
I started off doing OpenGL programming with GL4Java, which got migrated to JOGL and you should definately give it (JOGL) a try. Java offers most of the features you require (plus Eclipse gives you the code completion) and especially for JOGL there are a lot of tutorials out there to get you started.
Consider Boo -- it has many of Python's advantages while adopting features from elsewhere as well, and its compile-time type inference (when variables are neither explicitly given a specific type or explicitly duck typed) allows the kind of autocompletion support you're asking about.
The Tao.OpenGL library exposes OpenGL to .NET apps (such as those Boo compiles), with explicit support for Mono.
(Personally, I'm mostly a Python developer when not doing C or Java, but couldn't care less about autocompletion... but hey, it's your question; also, the one-class-per-module convention seems like a ridiculous amount of pain you're putting yourself through needlessly).