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I want a better C. Let me explain:
I do a lot of programming in C, which is required for applications that have real-time needs such as audio programming, robotics, device drivers, etc.
While I love C, one thing that gets on my nerves after having spent a lot of time with Haskell is the lack of a proper type system. That is, as soon as you want to write a more general-purpose function, say something that manipulates a generic pointer, (like say a generic linked list) you have to cast things to void* or whatever, and you loose all type information. It's an all-or-nothing system, which doesn't let you write generic functions without losing all the advantages of type checking.
C++ doesn't solve this. And I don't want to use C++ anyways. I find OO classes and templates to be a headache.
Haskell and its type classes do solve this. You can have semantically useful types, and use type constraints to write functions that operate on classes of types, that don't depend on void.
But the domain I'm working in, I can't use Haskell, because it's not real-time capable--mostly due to garbage collection. GC is needed because it's very difficult to do functional programming, which is allocation-heavy, without automatic memory management. However, there is nothing specifically in the idea of type classes that goes against C's semantics. I want C, but with Haskell's dependable type system, to help me write well-typed systems. However, I really want C: I want to be in control of memory management, I want to know how the data structures are layed out, I want to use (well-typed) pointer arithmetic, I want mutability.
Is there any language like this? If so, why is it not more popular for low-level programming?
Aside: I know there are some small language experiments in this direction, but I'm interested in things that would be really usable in real-world projects. I'm interesting in growing-to-well-developed languages, but not so much "toy" languages.
I should add, I heard of Cyclone, which is interesting, but I couldn't get it to compile for me (Ubuntu) and I haven't heard of any projects actually using it.. any other suggestions in this vein are welcome.
Thanks!
Since nobody brought it up yet: I think the ATS language is a very good candidate for a better C! Especially since you enjoy Haskell and thus functional programming with strong types. Note that ATS seems to be specifically designed for systems programming and hard real-time applications as most of it can do without garbage collection.
If you check the shootout you will find that performance is basically on par with C. I think this is quite impressive since modern c compilers have years and years and years of optimization work behind them while ATS is basically developed by one guy. -- while other languages providing similar safety features usually introduce overhead ATS ensures things entirely at compile time and thus yields very similar performance characteristics as C.
To quote the website:
What is ATS?
ATS is a statically typed programming language that unifies implementation with formal specification. It is equipped with a highly expressive type system rooted in the framework Applied Type System, which gives the language its name. In particular, both dependent types and linear types are available in ATS. The current implementation of ATS (ATS/Anairiats) is written in ATS itself. It can be as efficient as C/C++ (see The Computer Language Benchmarks Game for concrete evidence) and supports a variety of programming paradigms that include:
Functional programming. The core of ATS is a functional language based on eager (aka. call-by-value) evaluation, which can also accommodate lazy (aka. call-by-need) evaluation. The availability of linear types in ATS often makes functional programs written in it run not only with surprisingly high efficiency (when compared to C) but also with surprisingly small (memory) footprint (when compared to C as well).
Imperative programming. The novel and unique approach to imperative programming in ATS is firmly rooted in the paradigm of programming with theorem-proving. The type system of ATS allows many features considered dangerous in other languages (e.g., explicit pointer arithmetic and explicit memory allocation/deallocation) to be safely supported in ATS, making ATS a viable programming language for low-level systems programming.
Concurrent programming. ATS, equipped with a multicore-safe implementation of garbage collection, can support multithreaded programming through the use of pthreads. The availability of linear types for tracking and safely manipulating resources provides an effective means to constructing reliable programs that can take advantage of multicore architectures.
Modular programming. The module system of ATS is largely infuenced by that of Modula-3, which is both simple and general as well as effective in supporting large scale programming.
In addition, ATS contains a subsystem ATS/LF that supports a form of (interactive) theorem-proving, where proofs are constructed as total functions. With this component, ATS advocates a programmer-centric approach to program verification that combines programming with theorem-proving in a syntactically intertwined manner. Furthermore, this component can serve as a logical framework for encoding deduction systems and their (meta-)properties.
What about Nimrod or Vala languages ?
Rust
Another (real) candidate for a better C is The Rust Programming Language.
Unlike some other suggestions, (Go, Nimrod, D, ...) Rust can directly compete with C and C++ because it has manual memory management and does not require garbage collection (see [1]).
What sets Rust apart is that it has safe manual memory management. (The link is to pc walton's blog, one of Rusts main contributors and generally worth a read ;) Among other things, this means it fixes the billion dollar mistake of nullpointers. Many of the other languages suggested here either require garbage collection (Go) or have garbage collection turned on by default and do not provide facilities for safe manual memory management beyond what C++ provides (Nimrod, D).
While Rust has an imperative heart, it does borrow a lot of nice things from functional languages, for example sum types aka tagged unions. It is also really concerned with being a safe and performance oriented language.
[1] Right now there are two main pointer types owned pointers (like std::unique_ptr in C++ but with better support from the typechecker) and managed pointers. As the name suggests the latter do require task-local garbage collection, but there are thoughts to remove them from the language and only provide them as a library.
EDITED to reflect #ReneSacs comment: Garbage collection is not required in D and Nimrod.
I don't know much about Haskell, but if you want a strong type system, take a look at Ada. It is heavily used in embedded systems for aerospace applications. The SIGADA moto is "In strong typing we trust." It won't be of much use, however, if you have to do Windows/Linux type device drivers.
A few reasons it is not so popular:
verbose syntax -- designed to be read, not written
compilers were historically expensive
the relationship to DOD and design committees, which programmers seem to knock
I think the truth is that most programmers don't like strong type systems.
Nim (former Nimrod) has a powerful type system, with concepts and easy generics. It also features extensive compile time mechanisms with templates and macros. It also has easy C FFI and all the low level features that you expect from a system programming language, so you can write your own kernel, for example.
Currently it compiles to C, so you can use it everywhere GCC runs, for example. If you only want to use Nim as better C, you can do it via the --os:standalone compiler switch, that gives you a bare bones standard library, with no OS ties.
For example, to compile to an AVR micro-controller you can use:
nim c --cpu:avr --os:standalone --deadCodeElim:on --genScript x.nim
Nim has a soft real-time GC where you can specify when it runs and the max pause time in microseconds. If you really can't afford the GC, you can disable it completely (--gc:none compiler switch) and use only manual memory management like C, losing most of the standard library, but still retaining the much saner and powerful type system.
Also, tagged pointers are a planned feature, that ensure you don't mix kernel level pointers with user level pointers, for example.
D might offer what you want. It has a very rich type system, but you can still control memory layout if you need to. It has unrestricted pointers like C. It’s garbage collected, but you aren’t forced to use the garbage collector and you can write your own memory management code if you really want.
However, I’m not sure to what extent you can mix the type richness with the low-level approach you want to use.
Let us know if you find something that suits your needs.
I'm not sure what state Cyclone is in, but that provided more safety for standard C. D can be also considered a "better C" to some extent, but its status is not very clear with its split-brain in standard library.
My language of choice as a "better C" is OOC. It's still young, but it's quite interesting. It gives you the OO without C++'s killer complexity. It gives you easy access to C interfaces (you can "cover" C structs and use them normally when calling external libraries / control the memory layout this way). It uses GC by default, but you can turn it off if you really don't want it (but that means you cannot use the standard library collections anymore without leaking).
The other comment mentioned Ada which I forgot about, but that reminded me: there's Oberon, which is supposed to be a safe(-er) language, but that also contains garbage collection mechanisms.
You might also want to look at BitC. It’s a serious language and not a toy, but it isn’t ready yet and probably won’t be ready in time to be of any use to you.
Nonetheless, a specific design goal of BitC is to support low-level development in conjunction with a Haskell-style type system. It was originally designed to support development of the Coyotos microkernel. I think that Coyotos was killed off, but BitC is still apparently being developed.
C++ doesn't solve this. And I don't want to use C++ anyways. I find OO classes and templates to be a headache.
Get over this attitude. Just use C++. You can start with coding C in C++ and keep gradually moving to better style.
Related
In the context of programming language discussion/comparison, what does the term "power" mean?
Does it have a well defined meaning? Even a poorly defined meaning?
Say if someone says "language X is more powerful than language Y" or asks the same as a question, what do they mean - or what information are they trying to find out?
It does not have a well-defined meaning. In these types of discussions, "language X is more powerful than language Y" usually means little more than "I like language X more than language Y." On the other end of the spectrum, you'll also usually have someone chime in about how any Turing-complete language can accomplish the same tasks as any other Turing-complete language, so that neither is strictly more powerful than the other.
I think a good meaning for it is expressivity. When a language is highly expressive, it means less code is required to express concepts. To me, this doesn't just mean that you have to write less code to accomplish the same tasks, but also that the code is easily readable by humans. Of course, generally (to a point), having fewer lines of code to read makes the task of reading and understanding easier for humans.
Having a "powerful" standard library comes into play here along the same lines. If a language comes equipped with thorough, complete libraries, then idiomatic code in that language will be able to benefit from the existing library code and not have to repeat or reinvent common functionality in application code. The end result is, again, having to write and read less code to accomplish the same tasks.
I keep saying "generally" and "to a point", because once a language gets too terse, it gets more difficult for humans to decipher. I suppose at this extreme, a language may still be considered "more powerful" (or even "too powerful"). So I guess I'm saying my personal interpretation of "powerful" includes some aspects of "useful" and "readable" in it as well.
C is powerful, because it is low level and gives you access to hardware. Python is powerful because you can prototype quickly. Lisp is powerful because its REPL gives you fantastic debugging opportunities. SQL is powerful because you say what you want and the DMBS will figure out the best way to do it for you. Haskell is powerful because each function can be tested in isolation. C++ is powerful because it has ten times the number of syntactic constructs that any one person ever needs or uses. APL is powerful since it can squeeze a ten-screen program into ten characters. Hell, COBOL is powerful because... why else would all the banks be using it? :)
"Powerful" has no real technical meaning, but lots of people have made proposals.
A couple of the more interesting ones:
Paul Graham wants to call a language "more powerful" if you can write the same programs in fewer lines of code (or some other sane, sensible measure of program size).
Matthias Felleisen has written a very serious theoretical study called On the Expressive Power of Programming Language.
As someone who knows and uses many programming languages, I believe that there are real differences between languages, and that "power" can be a convenient shorthand to describe ways in which one language might be better than another. Nevertheless, whenever I hear a discussion or claim that one language is more powerful than another, I tend to keep one hand firmly on my wallet.
The only meaningful way to describe "power" in a programming language is "can do what I require with the least amount of resources" where "resources" is defined as "whatever costs I'd rather not pay" and could, thus, be development time, CPU time, memory space, money, etc.
So basically the definition of "power" is purely subjective and rendered meaningless in any objective discussion.
Powerful means "high in power". "Power" is something that increases your ability to do things. "Things" vary in shape, size and other things. Loosely speaking therefore, "powerful" when applied to a programming language means that it helps you to do perform your tasks quickly and efficiently.
This makes "powerful" somewhat well defined but not constant across domains. A language powerful in one domain might be crippling in another eg. C is very powerful if you want to do systems level programming since it gives you direct access to the machine and hardware and structures that let you code much faster than you would in assembly. C compilers also produce tight code that runs fast. However, once you move to web applications, C can become very "unpowerful" and crippling since it's so much effort to get something up and running and you have to worry about a lot of extraneous details like memory etc.
Sometimes, languages are "powerful" in multiple domains. This gives them a general "powerful" tag (or badge since were are on SO here). PG's claim is that with LISP, this is the case. That might be true or might not be.
At the end of the day, "powerful" is a loaded word so you should evaluate who is saying it, why he's saying it and what it means to to your work.
There are really only two meanings people are worried about:
"Powerful" in the sense of "takes less resources (time, money, programmers, LOC, etc.) to achieve the same/better result", and "powerful" in the sense of "is capable of doing a wide range of tasks".
Some languages are extrememly resource-effective for a small range of tasks. Others are not so resource-effective but can be applied to a wide range of tasks (e.g. C, which is often used in OS development, creation of compilers and runtime libraries, and work with microcontrollers).
Which of these two meanings someone has in mind when they use the term "powerful" depends on the context (and even then is not always clear). Indeed often it is a bit of both.
Typically there are two distinct meanings:
Expressive, meaning the code tends to be very short and understandable
Low level, meaning you have very fine-grained control over the hardware.
For the most languages, these two definitions are at opposite ends of the spectrum: Python is very expressive but not very low level; C is very low level but not very expressive. Depending on which definition you pick, either language is powerful or not powerful.
nothing absolutely nothing.
To high level programmers it might mean alot of available datatypes built in. Or maybe abstractions to easily create or follow Design Patterns.
Paul Graham is a very high level guy here is what he has to say:
http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html
Java guys might tell you something about portability, the power to reach every platform.
C/UNIX programmers may tell you that its speed and efficiency, complete control over every inch of memory.
VHDL/Verilog programmers will tell you its complete control over every clock and gate so as to not waste any electricity or time.
But in my opinion a "powerful language" supports all of the features for you to complete your task. Documentation may be important, or perhaps it is portability, or the ability to do graphics. It could be anything, writing a gui from Assembly is just stupid, so is trying to design an embedded processor in flash.
Choosing a language that suits your needs perfectly will always feel like power.
I view the term as marketing fluff, no one well-defined meaning.
If you consider, say, Assembler, C, and C++. On occasions one drops from C++ "down" to C for particualr needs, and in turn from C down to assembler. So that make assembler the most powerful because it's the only language that can do everything. Or, to argue the other way, a single line of C++ code can replace several of C (hiding polymorphic dispatch via function pointers for example) and a single line of C replaces many of assembler. So C++ is more powerful because one line does "more".
I think the term had some currency when products such as early databases and spreadsheets had in-built languages, some quite restricted. So vendors would tout their language as being "powerful" because it was less restricted.
It can have several meanings. In the very basic sense there's power as far as what is computable. In that sense the most powerful languages are Turing Complete which includes pretty much every general purpose programming language (as opposed to most markup languages and domain specific languages which are often not Turing complete).
In a more pragmatic sense it often refers to how concisely (and readably) you can do certain things. Basically how easy is it to do certain tasks in one language compared to another.
What language is more powerful (besides being somewhat subjective) depends heavily on what you're trying to do. If your requirements are to get something running on a small device with 64k of memory you're likely not going to be using Java. Most likely the right language would be C or C++ (or if you're really hard core assembly). If you need a very simple CRUD app done in 1 day, maybe something like Ruby On Rails would be the way to go (I know Rails is a framework and Ruby is the language, but these days what libraries and frameworks are available factor greatly into picking a language)
I think that, perhaps coincidentally, the physics definition of power is relevant here: "The rate at which work is performed."
Of course, a toaster does not perform very quickly the work of putting out fires. Similarly, the power of a programming language is not universal, but specific to the domain or task to which it is being applied. C is a powerful language for writing device drivers or implementations of higher-level languages; Python is a powerful language for writing general-purpose applications; XPath is a powerful language for writing queries on structured data sets.
So given a problem domain, the power of a language can be said to be the rate at which a competent programmer is able to use it to solve problems in that domain.
A precise answer can be tried to reach, by not assuming that the elements that define "powerful" (in the context of languages) come from so many dimensions.
See how many could be, and a lot will be missing:
runtime speed
code size
expressiveness
supported paradigms
development / debugging time
domain specialization
standard libs
codebase
toolchain ecosystem
portability
community
support / documentation
popularity
(add more here)
These and more parameters draw together X picture of how "programming in some language" would be like at X level. That will be only the definition, though, the only real knowledge comes with the actual practice of using the language, but i digress.
The question comes down to which parameter will represent the intrinsic quality of a language. If you refer to a language in itself, its ultimate, intrinsic purpose is "express things", and thus the most representative parameter is rightfully expressiveness, and is also one that resonates frequently when someone talks about how powerful a language is.
At the moment you try to widen the question/answer to cover more than the expressiveness of the language "as a language, as a tongue", you are more talking about different kinds of "environment", social environment, development environment, commercial environment, etc.
Depending of the complexity of the environment to be defined you'll have to mix more parameters that come from multiple, vast, overlapping and sometimes contradictory dimensions, and eventually the point of getting the definition will be lost or the question will have to be narrowed.
This approximation still won't answer "what is an expressive language", but, again, a common understanding are the definitions that Vineet well points out in its answer, and Forest remarks in the comments. I agree, for me "expression" is "conveying meaning".
I remember many instructors in college calling whatever language they were teaching "powerful".
Leads me to think:
Powerful = a relative term comparing the latest way to code something vs. the original or previous way.
I find it useless to use the word "powerful" in regards to discussing anything software related. Every time my professor in college would introduce a new concept such as polymorphism he would say "so this is a really powerful feature". After a while I got annoyed. If everything is powerful then nothing is. It's all the same. You can write code to do anything. Does is really matter how much code is required to do it? You can say it's short or efficient but powerful is just useless. Nuclear energy is powerful. Code is words.
I think that power would normally refer to how quickly it can process data, for example I found that in python as soon as a list exceeds a length of approx. 2000 it becomes unbearably slow whereas in C++ a list can easily contain 20,000 entries without doing so.
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There is a lot of hype around Haskell, however, it is hard to get information on how it is used in the real world applications. What are the most popular projects / usages of Haskell and why it excels at solving these problems?
What are some common uses for this
language?
Rapid application development.
If you want to know "why Haskell?", then you need to consider advantages of functional programming languages (taken from https://c2.com/cgi/wiki?AdvantagesOfFunctionalProgramming):
Functional programs tend to be much more terse than their ImperativeLanguage counterparts. Often this leads to enhanced
programmer productivity
FP encourages quick prototyping. As such, I think it is the best software design paradigm for ExtremeProgrammers... but what do I know?
FP is modular in the dimension of functionality, where ObjectOrientedProgramming is modular in the dimension of different
components.
The ability to have your cake and eat it. Imagine you have a complex OO system processing messages - every component might make state
changes depending on the message and then forward the message to some
objects it has links to. Wouldn't it be just too cool to be able to
easily roll back every change if some object deep in the call
hierarchy decided the message is flawed? How about having a history of
different states?
Many housekeeping tasks made for you: deconstructing data structures (PatternMatching), storing variable bindings (LexicalScope with
closures), strong typing (TypeInference), GarbageCollection, storage
allocation, whether to use boxed (pointer-to-value) or unboxed (value
directly) representation...
Safe multithreading! Immutable data structures are not subject to data race conditions, and consequently don't have to be protected by
locks. If you are always allocating new objects, rather than
destructively manipulating existing ones, the locking can be hidden in
the allocation and GarbageCollection system.
Apart from this Haskell has its own advantages such as:
Clear, intuitive syntax inspired by mathematical notation.
List comprehensions to create a list based on existing lists.
Lambda expressions: create functions without giving them explicit names. So it's easier to handle big formulas.
Haskell is completely referentially transparent. Any code that uses I/O must be marked as such. This way, it encourages you to separate code with side effects (e.g. putting text on the screen) from code without (calculations).
Lazy evaluation is a really nice feature:
Even if something would usually cause an error, it will still work as long as you don't use the result. For example, you could put 1 / 0 as the first item of a list and it will still work if you only used the second item.
It is easier to write search programs such as this sudoku solver because it doesn't load every combination at once—it just generates them as it goes along. You can do this in other languages, but only Haskell does this by default.
You can check out following links:
https://c2.com/cgi/wiki?AdvantagesOfFunctionalProgramming
https://learn.microsoft.com/archive/blogs/wesdyer/why-functional-programming-is-important-in-a-mixed-environment
https://web.archive.org/web/20160626145828/http://blog.kickino.org/archives/2007/05/22/T22_34_16/
https://useless-factor.blogspot.com/2007/05/advantage-of-functional-programming.html
I think people in this post are missing the most important point for anyone who has never used a functional programming language: expanding your mind. If you are new to functional programming then Haskell will make you think in ways you've never thought before. As a result your programming in other areas and other languages will improve. How much? Hard to quantify.
There is one good answer for what a general purpose language like Haskell is good for: writing programs in general.
For what it is used for in practice, I've three approaches to establishing that:
A tag cloud of Haskell library and app areas, weighted by frequency on Hackage.
Indicates that it is good for graphics, networking, systems programming, data structures, databases, development, text processing ...
Areas it is used in industry - a lot of DSLs, web apps, compiler design, networking, analysis, systems programming , ...
And finally, my opinion on what it is really strong at:
Problems where correctness matters, domain specific languages, and parallel and concurrent programming
I hope that gives you a sense on how broad your question is, if it is to be answered with any specificity.
One example of Haskell in action is xmonad, a "featureful window manager in less than 1200 lines of code".
From the Haskell Wiki:
Haskell has a diverse range of use
commercially, from aerospace and
defense, to finance, to web startups,
hardware design firms and lawnmower
manufacturers. This page collects
resources on the industrial use of
Haskell.
According to Wikipedia, the Haskell language was created out of the need to consolidate existing functional languages into a common one which could be used for future research in functional-language design.
It is apparent based on the information available that it has outgrown it's original purpose and is used for much more than research. It is now considered a general purpose functional programming language.
If you're still asking yourself, "Why should I use it?", then read the Why use it? section of the Haskell Wiki Introduction.
Haskell is a general purpose programming language. It can be used for anything you use any other language to do. You aren't limited by anything but your own imagination. As for what it's suited for? Well, pretty much everything. There are few tasks in which a functional language does not excel.
And yes, I'm the Rayne from Dreamincode. :)
I would also like to mention that, in case you haven't read the Wikipedia page, functional programming is a paradigm like Object Oriented programming is a paradigm. Just in case you didn't know. Haskell is also functional in the sense that it works; it works quite well at that.
Just because a language isn't an Object Oriented language doesn't mean the language is limited by anything. Haskell is a general-purpose programming language, and is just as general purpose as Java.
I have a cool one, facebook created a automated tool for rewriting PHP code. They parse the source into an abstract syntax tree, do some transformations:
if ($f == false) -> if (false == $f)
I don't know why, but that seems to be their particular style and then they pretty print it.
https://github.com/facebook/lex-pass
We use haskell for making small domain specific languages. Huge amounts of data processing. Web development. Web spiders. Testing applications. Writing system administration scripts. Backend scripts, which communicate with other parties. Monitoring scripts (we have a DSL which works nicely together with munin, makes it much easier to write correct monitor code for your applications.)
All kind of stuff actually. It is just a everyday general purpose language with some very powerful and useful features, if you are somewhat mathematically inclined.
From Haskell:
Haskell is a standardized, general-purpose purely functional
programming language, with
non-strict semantics and strong static
typing. It is named after logician
Haskell Curry.
Basically Haskell can be used to create pretty much anything you would normally create using other general-purpose languages (e.g. C#, Java, C, C++, etc.).
For example, for developing interactive, realtime HTML5 web applications. See Elm, the compiler of which is implemented in Haskell and the syntax of which borrows a lot from Haskell's.
This is a pretty good source for info about Haskell and its uses:
Open Source Haskell Releases and Growth
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I'm a scientist working mostly with C++, but I would like to find a better language. I'm looking for suggestions, I'm not even sure my "dream language" exist (yet), but here's my wishlist;
IMPORTANT FEATURES (in order of importance)
1.1: Performance: For science, performance is very important. I perfectly understand the importance of productivity, not just execution speed, but when your program has to run for hours, you just can't afford to write it in Python or Ruby. It doesn't need to be as fast as C++, but it has to be reasonably close (e.g.: Fortran, Java, C#, OCaml...).
1.2: High-level and elegant: I would like to be able to concentrate as most as possible on the science and get a clear code. I also dislike verbose languages like Java.
1.3: Primarely functional: I like functional programming, and I think it suits both my style and scientific programming very well. I don't care if the language supports imperative programming, it might be a plus, but it has to focus and encourage functional programming.
1.4: Portability: Should work well on Linux (especially Linux!), Mac and Windows. And no, I do not think F# works well on Linux with mono, and I'm not sure OCaml works well on windows ;)
1.5: Object-oriented, preferably under the "everything is an object" philosophy: I realized how much I liked object-oriented programming when I had to deal pure C not so long ago. I like languages with a strong commitment to object-oriented programming, not just timid support.
NOT REALLY IMPORTANT, BUT THINGS THAT WOULD BE NICE
2.1: "Not-too-strong" typing: I find Haskell's strong typing system to be annoying, I like to be able to do some implicit casting.
2.2: Tools: Good tools is always a plus, but I guess it really depends on the languages. I played with Haskell using Geany, a lightweight editor, and I never felt handicapped. On the other hand I wouldn't have done the same with Java or even Scala (Scala, in particular, seems to be lacking good tools, which is really a shame). Java is really the #1 language here, with NetBeans and Javadoc, programming with Java is easy and fun.
2.3: Garbage collected, but translated or compiled without a virtual machine. I have nothing against virtual machines, but the two giants in the domain have their problems. On paper the .net framework seems much better, and especially suited for functional programming, but in practice it's still very windows-centric and the support for Linux/MacOS is terrible not as good as it should be, so it's not really worth considering. Java is now a mature VM, but it annoys me on some levels: I dislike the ways it deals with executables, generics, and it writes terrible GUIs (although these things aren't so bad).
In my mind there are three viable candidates: Haskell, Standard ML, OCaml. (Scala is out on the grounds that it compiles to JVM codes and is therefore unlikely to be fast enough when programs must run for days.)
All are primarily functional. I will comment where I have knowledge.
Performant
OCaml gives the most stable performance for all situations, but performance is hard to improve. What you get is what you get :-)
Haskell has the best parallel performance and can get excellent use out of an 8-core or 16-core machine. If your future is parallel, I urge you to master your dislike of the type system and learn to use Haskell effectively, including the Data Parallel Haskell extensions.
The down side of Haskell performance is that it can be quite difficult to predict the space and time required to evaluate a lazy functional program. There are excellent profiling tools, but still significant effort may be required.
Standard ML with the MLton compiler gives excellent performance. MLton is a whole-program compiler and does a very good job.
High-level and elegant
Syntactically Haskell is the clear winner. The type system, however, is cluttered with the remains of recent experiments. The core of the type system is, however, high-level and elegant. The "type class" mechanism is particularly powerful.
Standard ML has ugly syntax but a very clean type system and semantics.
OCaml is the least elegant, both from a point of view of syntax and from the type system. The remains of past experiments are more obtrusive than in Haskell. Also, the standard libraries do not support functional programming as well as you might expect.
Primarily functional
Haskell is purely functional; Standard ML is very functional; OCaml is mostly functional (but watch out for mutable strings and for some surprising omissions in the libraries; for example, the list functions are not safe for long lists).
Portability
All three work very well on Linux. The Haskell developers use Windows and it is well supported (though it causes them agony). I know OCaml runs well on OSX because I use an app written in OCaml that has been ported to OSX. But I'm poorly informed here.
Object-oriented
Not to be found in Haskell or SML. OCaml has a bog-standard OO system grafted onto the core language, not well integrated with other languages.
You don't say why you are keen for object-orientation. ML functors and Haskell type classes provide some of the encapsulation and polymorphism (aka "generic programming") that are found in C++.
Type system than can be subverted
All three languages provide unsafe casts. In all three cases they are a good way to get core dumps.
I like to be able to do some implicit casting.
I think you will find Haskell's type-class system to your liking—you can get some effects that are similar to implicit casting, but safely. In particular, numeric and string literals are implicitly castable to any type you like.
Tools
There are pretty good profiling tools with Haskell. Standard ML has crappy tools. OCaml has basically standard Unix profiling plus an unusable debugger. (The debugger refuses to cross abstraction barriers, and it doesn't work on native code.)
My information may be out of date; the tools picture is changing all the time.
Garbage-collected and compiled to native code
Check. Nothing to choose from there.
Recommendation
Overcome your aversion to safe, secure type systems. Study Haskell's type classes (the original paper by Wadler and Blott and a tutorial by Mark Jones may be illuminating). Get deeper into Haskell, and be sure to learn about the huge collection of related software at Hackage.
Try Scala. It's an object-oriented functional language that runs in the JVM, so you can access everything that was ever written in Java. It has all your important features, and one of the nice to have features. (Obviously not #2.2 :) but that will probably get better quickly.) It does have very strong typing, but with type inference it doesn't really get in your way.
You just described Common Lisp...
If you like using lists for most things, and care about performance, use Haskell or Ocaml. Although Ocaml suffers significantly in that Floats on the heap need to be boxed due to the VM design (but arrays of floats and purely-float records aren't individually boxed, which is good).
If you're willing to use arrays more than lists, or plan on programming using mutable state, use Scala rather than Haskell. If you're looking to write threaded multi-core code, use Scala or Haskell (Ocaml requires you to fork).
Scala's list is polymorphic, so a list of ints is really a list of boxed Int objects. Of course you could write your own list of ints in Scala that would be as fast, but I assume you'd rather use the standard libraries. Scala does have as much tail recursion as is possible on JVM.
Ocaml fails on Vista 64 for me, I think because they just changed the linker in the latest version (3.11.1?), but earlier versions worked fine.
Scala tool support is buggy at the moment if you're using nightly builds, but should be good soon. There are eclipse and netbeans plugins. I'm using emacs instead. I've used both the eclipse and netbeans debugger GUI successfully in the past.
None of Scala, Ocaml, or Haskell, have truly great standard libraries, but at least you can easily use Java libs in Scala. If you use mapreduce, Scala wins on integration. Haskell and Ocaml have a reasonable amount of 3rd party libs. It annoys me that there are differently named combinators for 2-3 types of monad in Haskell.
http://metamatix.org/~ocaml/price-of-abstraction.html might convince you to stay with C++. It's possible to write Scala that's almost identical in performance to Java/C++, but not necessarily in a high level functional or OO style.
http://gcc.gnu.org/projects/cxx0x.html seems to suggest that auto x = ... (type inference for expressions) and lambdas are usable. C++0x with boost, if you can stomach it, seems pretty functional. The downside to C++ high performance template abusing libraries is, of course, compile time.
Your requirements seem to me to describe ocaml quite well, except for the "not-too-strong" typing. As for tools, I use and like tuareg mode for emacs. Ocaml should run on windows (I haven't used it myself though), and is pretty similar to F#, FWIW.
I'd consider the ecosystem around the language as well. In my opinion Ocaml's major drawback is that it doesn't have a huge community, and consequently lacks the large library of third-party modules that are part of what makes python so convenient. Having to write your own code or modify someone else's one-shot prototype module you found on the internet can eat up some of the time you save by writing in a nice functional language.
You can use F# on mono; perhaps worth a look? I know that mono isn't 100% perfect (nothing ever is), but it is very far from "terrible"; most of the gaps are in things like WCF/WPF, which I doubt you'd want to use from FP. This would seem to offer much of what you want (except obviously it runs in a VM - but you gain a huge set of available libraries in the bargain (i.e. most of .NET) - much more easily than OCaml which it is based on).
I would still go for Python but using NumPy or some other external module for the number crunching or alternatively do the logic in Python and the hotspots in C / assembler.
You are always giving up cycles for comfort, the more comfort the more cycles. Thus you requirements are mutual exclusive.
I think that Common Lisp fits your description quite well.
1.1: Performance: Modern CL implementations are almost on par with C. There are also foreign function interfaces to interact with C libraries, and many bindings are already done (e.g. the GNU Scientific Library).
1.2: High-level and elegant: Yep.
1.3: Primarily functional: Yes, but you can also "get imperative" wherever the need arises; CL is "multi-paradigm".
1.4: Portability: There are several implementations with differing support for each platform. Some links are at CLiki and ALU Wiki.
1.5: Object-oriented, preferably under the "everything is an object" philosophy: CLOS, the Common Lisp Object System, is much closer to being "object oriented" than any of the "curly" languages, and also has features you will sorely miss elsewhere, like multimethods.
2.1: "Not-too-strong" typing: CL has dynamic, strong typing, which seems to be what you want.
2.2: Tools: Emacs + SLIME (the Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs) is a very nice free IDE. There is also a plugin for Eclipse (Cusp), and the commercial CL implementations also oftem bring an own IDE.
2.3: Garbage collected, but translated or compiled without a virtual machine. The Lisp image that you will be working on is a kind of VM, but I think that's not what you mean.
A further advantage is the incremental development: you have a REPL (read-eval-print-loop) running that provides a live interface into the running image. You can compile and recompile individual functions on the fly, and inspect the current program state on the live system. You have no forced interruptions due to compiling.
Short Version: The D Programming Language
Yum Yum Yum, that is a big set of requirements.
As you probably know, object orientation, high-level semantics, performance, portability and all the rest of your requirements don't tend to fit together from a technical point of view. Let's split this into a different view:
Syntax Requirements
Object Orientated presentation
Low memory management complexity
Allows function style
Isn't Haskell (damn)
Backend Requirements
Fast for science
Garbage Collected
On this basis I would recommend The D programming language it is a successor to C trying to be all things to all people.
This article on D is about it's functional programming aspects. It is object-orientated, garbage collected and compiles to machine code so is fast!
Good Luck
Clojure and/or Scala are good canditates for JVM
I'm going to assume that you are familiar enough with the languages you mentioned to have ruled them out as possibilities. Given that, I don't think there is a language that fulfills all your expectations. However, there are still a few languages you could take a look at:
Clojure This really is a very nice language. It's syntax is based on LISP, and it runs on the JVM.
D This is like C++ done right. It has all the features you want except that it's kind of weak on the functional programming.
Clean This is based very heavily on Haskell, but removes some of Haskell's problems. Downsides are that it's not very mature and doesn't have a lot of libraries.
Factor Syntactically it's based on Forth, but has support for LISP-like functional programming as well as better support for classes.
Take a peek at Erlang. Originally, Erlang was intended for building fault-tolerant, highly parallel systems. It is a functional language, embracing immutability and first-class functions. It has an official Windows binary release, and the source can be compiled for many *NIX platforms (there is a MacPorts build, for example).
In terms of high-level features, Erlang support list comprehensions, pattern matching, guard clauses, structured data, and other things you would expect. It's relatively slow in sequential computation, but pretty amazing if you're doing parallel computation. Erlang does run on a VM, but it runs on its own VM, which is part of the distribution.
Erlang, while not strictly object-oriented, does benefit from an OO mindset. Erlang uses a thing called a process as its unit of concurrency. An Erlang process is actually a lot like a native thread, except with much less overhead. Each process has a mailbox, will be sent messages, and will process those messages. It's easy enough to treat processes as if they were objects.
I don't know if it has much in the way of scientific libraries. It might not be a good fit for your needs, but it's a cool language that few people seem to know about.
Are you sure that you really need a functional language? I did most of my programming in lisp, which is obviously a functional language, but I have found that functional programming is more of a mind-set than a language feature. I'm using VB right now, which I think is an excellent language (speed, support, IDE) and I basically use the same programming style that I did in lisp - functions call other functions that call other functions - and functions are usually 1-5 lines long.
I do know that Lisp has good performance, run on all platforms, but it is somewhat outdated in terms of how up to date support for features such as graphics, multi-threading etc. are.
i've taken a look at clojure but if you don't like java you probably won't like clojure. It's a functional-lisp-style language implemented on top of java - but you'll probably find yourself using java libraries all the time which adds the verbosoity of java. I like lisp but I didn't like clojure despite the hype.
Are you also sure about your performanc requirements? Matlab is an excellent language for a lot of scientific computation, but it is kind of slow and I hate reading it. You might find t useful though especially in conjunction with other languages, for prototypes/scenarios/subunits.
Many of your requirements are based on hearsay. One example: the idea that Mono is "terrible".
http://banshee-project.org/
That's the official media player of many Linux distributions. It's written in C#. (They don't even have a public Windows release of it!)
Your assertions about the relative performance of various languages are equally dubious. And requiring a language to not use a virtual machine is quite unrealistic and totally undesirable. Even an OS is a form of VM on which applications run, which virtualises the hardware devices of the machine.
Though you earn points for mentioning tools (although not with enough priority). As Knuth observed, the first question to ask about a language is "What's the debugger like?"
Looking over your requirements, I would recommend VB on either Mono, or a virtual machine running windows. As a previous poster said, the first thing to ask about a language is "What is the debugger like" and VB/C# have the best debugger. Just a result of all those Microsoft employees hammering on the debugger, and having the teams nearby to bug (no pun intended) into fixing it.
The best thing about VB and C# is the large set of developer tools, community, google help, code exapmles, libraries, softwaer that interfaces with it, etc. I've used a wide variety of software development environments over the past 27 years, and the only thing that comes close is the Xerox Lisp machine environmnets (better) and the Symbolics Lisp machines (worse).
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What is the real benefit of creating a new programming language? It is highly unlikely that you are going to actually use it.
In short, how will the process of creating a new language make you a better programmer?
You will understand the decisions behind language design and garner a better overall understanding of the compromises made between readability, performance, and reliability.
Your familiarity with concepts such as recursion, closures, garbage collection, reference management, typing, data structures and how these things actually work will increase. Most programmers will utilize resources and language features better.
Similar to the way we learn new ways to code solutions when we use other languages, when we write our own languages, we explore new ways to create solutions. See Metaprogramming. Contrary to the what the question suggests, Domain Specific Languages are used in many environments.
If you're writing a compiler, you'll learn more about how computers work than you ever did before. (Depending on your goal, perhaps more than you intended to learn)
When I wrote my own sort routines in school, even re-implementations of good ones, it really drove home some of the weaknesses of some of the algorithms.
In short, there's an order of magnitude of difference in a programmer who knows how to use tools, and a programmer who knows how to make tools.
I can speak from experience here ...
Fun, Domain specific problem solving, Complexity in context
I love creating new languages for fun, and for tackling domain specific problems. A very simple example might be Wikipedia markup or something as complex as Erlang which specializes in concurrent processing.
Many general purpose languages are similar, because they are general purpose. Sometimes you need a more accurate abstraction of the mechanics of the problem you are solving. Another example would be the M4 macro language.
Remember a language is not magic, it is just a collection of defined grammatical structures with implied semantics. SQL is a good example of a language for a purpose, with that purpose defined in it's syntax and semantics.
Learning how languages work, what makes a language parsable, what makes semantics sensible and the implementation of this, I think can make you a better programmer.
compilers embody alot of theory that underpins computer science:
Translation, abstraction, interpretation, data structures, state .... the list goes on. Learning these things will make you understand the implications of your program and what goes on under the hood. You can of course learn things independently but compilers are a great context to learn complex topics such as DFA/NDFA automata, stack-based parsers, abstract syntax trees ....
compilers are beautiful machines I think :)
Multiple reasons:
bragging rights
economic incentives
extreme boredom
dissatisfaction with the hundreds of existing languages
untreated insanity
desire to implement language that facilitates new design concepts (like languages that make design patterns more straightforward to incorporate)
other reasons, perhaps
I think Jeff Attwood answers this well in this Coding Horror post -- though he's talking about a more general issue (why create any new library, framework, etc, when other artifacts in the same design space already exist), I suspect that exactly said broader viewpoint gives him a different and interesting perspective.
I will add that if you write a semantics, so that your language is an actual language and not merely what happens to be accepted by some particular implementation, you will learn an enormous amount about how to describe computational behaviors precisely:
You will learn what kinds of behaviors are and are not easy to describe—and prove correct.
You will learn how to trade off different kinds of formalisms for describing different kinds of features.
You will ultimately be a better programmer because the formalism and proof techniques you will learn will apply to all kinds of problems: locking techniques, safety properties in kernels, lock-free data structures, network protocols, and information security, to name just a few. All these areas are amenable to the same kind of formal treatment that is given to a programming language.
To pick just one example, if you give your language a static type system and you then prove that a well-type program is guaranteed to be memory-safe, you will learn just as much (on a different dimension) as you will by writing an interpreter or compiler.
EDIT: If you want to learn this stuff I think the easiest starting point is Benjamin Pierce's series of two books on Types and Programming Languages. There is also a graduate textbook by Glynn Winskel which is a little harder but more oriented toward semantics and proof techniques.
Creating Domain Specific Languages is very valuable. Instead of thinking only about general purpose languages, consider creating so-called "little languages" that clearly express abstractions in your project.
For example, in a recent project I decided to use a Command Pattern to drive a Service Layer. I found some repetition in my command code, so I wrote a little compiler that accepts a simple language that expresses commands and emits command implementations in the "underlying" language.
For the same reason that taking a Compiler Construction course at university will benefit you even if you never write a single compiler in your whole life. It's a look under the hood, if you may.
In addition to what altCognito said, which is a theoretical/academic perspective, some highly specialized languages are created to solve specific problems efficiently when existing "general-purpose" languages are either extremely inefficient for your task or there just isn't an easy-to-use existing alternative.
Granted, that such cases tend to be rare and if your first instinct on encountering a problem is "I need a new language for this.", then it is most likely you're missing something. There needs to be a fairly substantial gap in "available" tech and and your needs to warrant such an undertaking.
I think there are really two conceptually different answers to this. First, you gain an understanding of how compilers transform your code into executable code. This can help you make better decisions about how to structure your code to optimize (or allow it to be optimized) better. If, for instance, you knew that a certain construct would prohibit the compiler from inlining a code block or unrolling a loop, then you could avoid that if performance became a real concern.
Second, all current languages were invented (or derived) at some point in history. For each one of these, the likelihood that it would actually be used was potentially small, yet here they are. They all found their reason for being in the fact that someone wanted to do something that wasn't possible or easy to do in an existing language and decided to do something about it. Laziness (or the desire to let the computer do the work for you) is the mother of invention.
Just for fun... and then you'll realize that you cannot make anything better than all the languages that you thought they sucked xD (so you stop complaining about them).
how will the process of creating a new language make you a better programmer?
You're right, you may or may not use the language, but at the least the experience you will gain from doing it will benefit you to understand the implementation of programming languages and of certain things that you will be able to apply to future computation problems that you run into.
Writing a compiler or interpreter requires a very firm understanding in computer science theory. And if you're compiling to machine code instead of to another language, it requires a firm understanding in hardware design as well.
In addition to that, knowing how to design a compiler means you will have a better understanding of languages in general, and the languages you work with specifically. You will have a better appreciation for syntax and trade-offs the language designers took when they wrote their specification.
It's not that writing compilers makes you a better programmer. It's the deep understanding of language theory and compiler design that makes you better.
Mostly you do this for fun or to broaden your comprehension of a subject.
I disagree that creating new language influences performance - performance of what? IMHO execution speed should not depend on the language constructs but what the language is translated to - which is something different: like creating a syntax for a language and writting a compiler/virtual machine for it.
Because a talking frog is pretty neat.
I want a managed language that permits tinkering with its internals as standard practice. Kind of like Ruby's duck punching on a wider scale.
I should, as the client of a library, be able to swap out library functions that don't do what I want.
That's what drives me crazy with .NET. There are bugs in the framework Microsoft will not fix and thanks to GAC signing I cannot. And even if it were not for GAC signing, hotpatching a global library is a bad idea (might break some other application).
I for one don't care about how compilers work, don't care about learning new languages, and don't care about using scripting languages like perl and javascript. I'm much more interested in the ways big programs are constructed (or should be constructed). There are still no good solutions for making LARGE software as easy to use as prototyped code. Programming languages are not helping with that. They solve trivial problems like sorting and memory deallocation, and leave you struggling alone with problems that really matter (that keep you or your firm from losing money).
I have become interested in C-like languages for performance computing. Can you recommend some alternative programming languages which have the following attributes:
must be close to the hardware (bit fiddling, pointers or some alternative safe method like references)
no managed code (no jvm/.net languages)
has to be really fast (like C)
must be above ASM level (and yes I am interested in macro languages on top of ASM)
can be obscure, not very widespread
I am mainly interested in little-known languages.
How about Assembly language, or the D programming language?
If you don't know about it and are interested just in broadening your horizons, take a look at Forth. Reading about Forth always makes me feel C is high-level.
Well, I've always preferred C and/or C++ because there are multiple flavours (MSVC, glibc etc), it runs on many different platforms (e.g. mobile devices, Windows, linux) and devices, and it can be written cross platform (different processor architectures) and even for high end graphics (e.g. DirectX).
You get "decent" access to platform resources (conditions vary), it can be as fast as you choose to hone it, and it's a tad easier (IMHO) to write than ASM. There's also a pretty decent range of support tools and code analysis tools to make things a little easier.
Also C and C++ have been around for quite some time, so it's got (even today) an excellent and enthusiastic community!
You don't explicitly state that it can't be C in your question, so I'll go ahead and recommend C. It fulfills your three bulleted desires, and you won't have to worry about different versions of the language (like each different kind of assembler).
Forth!
Forth can be faster than machine language on some architectures. The compiled code is extremely dense, therefore, making optimal use of code caching.
assembly would be the closest to the hardware and therefore the fastest
Ada was originally designed for embedded systems (among other things).
OpenCL might be interesting. It's sort of like OpenGL shader language (a subset of C with extensions), but for general purpose parallel array computing.
You could start programming FPGAs in VHDL, Verilog, System C ...
Variations on a theme
FORTRAN is older than C, and is still one of the major players in numerical computing. Until 1990 (when the language was substantially modernized), the language didn't have any form of pointer (checked or not). This lack meant that there was no way to manage memory dynamically; it also made aliasing analysis easy for the compiler, which is one of the things that makes Fortran code fast.
ALGOL was the first structured programming language. Although it had limited success with programmers, it had a strong influence on language designers.
Ada is an imperative language with a strong type system and good modularity, which makes it good for low-level programming with strong assurance requirements (it was sponsored by the US government with military and avionics applications in mind). It was inspired by Pascal, like Modula-2 and Modula-3.
Going further from the mainstream of low-level imperative programming, there is FORTH. FORTH can be compiled for, and even interpreted on, devices with very little memory; it finds a lot of use on low-end embedded systems, including microcontrollers. The language is based on reverse polish notation, made famous by HP calculators (in fact, the language of HP calculators is strongly influenced by FORTH). Many implementations don't have variables: all data is kept on one or more stacks.
Just for fun, I'll mention INTERCAL, the grandaddy of esoteric languages.
Stuff that will blow your mind
Esoteric languages can be instructive, and a quite a few work close to the machine (usually a virtual machine, but in principle you could implement them for an actual computer if you were crazy enough). You could look at brainfuck (a sort of intermediate stage between Turing machines and C), or the many single-instruction languages, or befunge (what if memory was a two-dimensional array?).
Cyclone looks a lot like C. The syntax is the same, and Cyclone has pointers, untagged structures and unions, goto statements and manual memory management. And yet it's a safe language: you can't have a dangling pointer, or a buffer overflow. And you have access to high-level features such as pattern matching, exceptions, polymorphism, abstract types and optional automatic memory management (not just garbage collection, but also regions). Cyclone is both useful and instructive; for a C die-hard, it can be a good way of discovering what makes a safe language. Cyclone can compile to C, so you can run your programs anywhere you have a C compiler for.
Going in a different direction, if you want to be close to the hardware, while still not actually designing hardware, have a look at synchronous languages, such as Lustre and Esterel. These languages are used to program high-assurance realtime systems such as nuclear plants, airplanes and railway signaling. These languages give up Turing completeness and gain the assurance that programmers can know exactly how fast their program will run and how much memory it will require. If you think C is close to the machine, finding out what a language that is really close to the machine may come as a shock.
You can't get much closer than assembly language, unless you get a job with a chip-maker and start writing micro code!!!
If you're on Windows I think you can get hold of Microsoft MASM (macro assembler) that will allow you go get up and running quickly. I used it a long time ago and it's not a bad product.
Seems a bit awkward to answer my question, but I have found two languages:
Pyrex
Vala
They may not fulfill all of the constraints, but they are great for performance computing and both translates to C.