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Closed 10 years ago.
i was thinking learn a more low level language like C, but before it i'd like some opnion about:
what's the second language do you recommend to learn?
learn a low level language will make me a better programmer?
it's really necessary learn a second programming language?
Going backwards:
(3) Absolutely - you'll increase your ability by orders of magnitude by learning multiple languages.
(2) A low level language will make you a better programmer - alternatively a functional language will help as well.
(1) Low-level: go with C. Functional, try Scheme or Haskell. C also gives you the ability to write extension modules to Python if you ever have the need.
what's the second language do you recommend to learn?
Something imperative (i.e. same paradigm) but different. Python is dynamically typed with significant whitespace, so something statically types without significant whitespace: e.g. Java or C#.
These would also make a nice stepping stone towards C. The benefit of C is you really know what's going on, but with the disadvantage that you have to control it all. This level of control is not need for most business problems.
it's really necessary learn a second programming language?
Really subjective, but most good developers know many (consider for a web app: Python, Ruby, C#, Java on the server; SQL on the database and JavaScript on the client; and then the mark-up...).
You benefit from being able to see other approaches to problems and thus create better solutions. So once you have covered more imperative languages move into other paradigms like functional.
I agree with your choice of C, which leads on to C++. If nothing else, learning C will teach you why people these days tend to prefer languages with automatic memory management - but it will potentially also give you a feeling of programming "close to the metal" (without the pain of programming in assembly language), and help you to understand how a processor actually works. Not always useful knowledge but it's nice to know.
Whatever you choose, I recommend a statically-typed language - C, C++, Java, and some functional programming languages fit this bill. Java might be a good choice if you find C a bit tough at first.
I'd say learning any new language makes you a better programmer. However, will learning C make you a better Python programmer? Probably not; why should it?!
Define "necessary"! By a strict definition, no. But you're missing out on the experience of having to think about things in a different way (even if it's only a slightly different way).
I would stay with the same paradigm, but leave options open for another paradigm (functional programming). Probably C# is a good choice, because
If you decide to learn C/C++ later, it'll become a bit easier.
If you decide you want to learn functional programming later, you can switch to F# but still use existing code written in C#, because you stay within .NET framework.
Python is not known to be a remarkably fast language. You should consider learning a language which allows better computational performance. But good old ANSI C is probably too low level, despite you can write very fast programs with it. C# has OK performance for a just-in-time compiled language, and if you need more performance later, you can still extend your knowledge towards F# or C.
Although I don't use Microsoft Windows privately and advertise Linux and Open Source frequently, it's probably a good idea to offer some knowledge about Microsoft technology in case you intent to earn money with programming.
Related
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Closed 10 years ago.
As the question states, is it better if a student diversifies or explores when learning programming languages or should they focus only on 2-3 languages and really get to know them well?
Example of what I mean by diversifying:
Functional -> Scheme
Procedural -> C
Object Oriented -> Java
Dynamic or scripting -> Python
Other -> C++
I have a few breaks in between semesters sometimes (up to 3 months) and I'm thinking of either learning a new language or "master" those that I know right now. Which would benefit me in the future? I know some(about 3 months of self studying each) Java, C, and C++ already . If I'm not mistaken, where I live, the industry is heavy on Java, C++, and C#.
Mastery takes ten years. But if you were my student, I would advise you to develop a good working knowledge of four kinds of languages:
Functional
Object-oriented
Machine-level
Scripting
These categories are pretty loose, but if you have a good working knowledge of all four, you score well on diversity.
If you want to aim for mastery, study C as your machine-level language and Lua as your scripting language. Lua is definitely small enough to be mastered, and C is not too bad if you avoid odd corners like the true meanings of const and volatile. I don't know if a functional or object-oriented language that I would say is susceptible of mastery.
Summary: build carefully targeted diversity and allow mastery to come with time.
Do both. Master at least one language (probably Java or C# since those are most common in industry) and learn others languages for what they can teach you so that you can bring back to those you are forced to work with.
You can't master a language per se, you can master programming. In the end, it will rarely matter if you have to learn a new language, as you have all the basic knowledge from other projects, you just have to get used to the specific stuff of the new language.
I believe that a good programmer doesn't know every thing but he can learn every thing.
when you master a language and master "the programming" it won't take more than a week to learn another language.
but it is a good idea to take a look to new languages and be able to read and anderstand codes in many languages.
It is hard to master a language unless you are actually using it for real, this means that during your holidays you would have to write real projects - not many people can achieve that (finishing a real project in a short amount of time, while on a break from learning).
I would advise to diversify first. You will find that once you know a few different languages then any new lenguage becomes a lot easier to learn. Different types of languages also introduce you to new concepts, and may well help you decide what type of programming you really want to do. Once you have decided what you like, then work on mastering it.
It depends on where and what your intentions are (for me at least).
A student in varsity is somewhat bound to the curriculum and the course will surely lead them and bind them to the predefined learning path.
For someone in my situation (Self taught and takes Vendor certifications), the goal is employment and income and thus learning a language with the goal of finding employment is (or was) my highest priority.
It is not common to work as as a developer on a full 3 tier systems as roles are usually fragmented into at least 2 ends (front and back) so I would focus on on what you're good at out of these. (If you're an artist and graphical guy/gal focus on front end and if you're mathematical and a problem solver, focus on back end and possibly scripting).
I have thoroughly enjoyed learning Java (even with an orange sized brain tumor lurking in my brain) and found it a good enough language to take you to other languages as it has some commonalities to general programming like: functions (methods), can be written procedural (like hello world app), has standard variable declarations, has logical operators and conditional operators found in many other languages.
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Closed 10 years ago.
I am currently entering my senior year as a dual major in Electrical Engineering and Computer Engineering, and have touched on a wide variety of different languages: C, C++, C#/XAML, Java, bash, python, VHDL, assembly, etc. I was wondering what you think would be a good language/few languages to become more proficient in, or to explore for a first time. Also, what level of programming you prefer (hardware, local, network, system, design, integration, and so on) If you could tell me why, I would be grateful, or if you'd like to relate your experiences, I am quite interested
. I am hoping to find a job in hardware design, but as I become better with some languages, I am finding just how much I enjoy programming, so I really have an open mind at this juncture. I would love to hear from some people in the 'real world'.
You want to understand:
Different language paradigms (procedural, oop, functional, parallel, logic [e.g., Prolog], constraint). Do some programming in each.
Different software architectures. OSes, standard applications (MVC, ...)
Software Engineering: requirements, specifation (especially design-by-contract), design, testing. These ideas hold in hardware engineering too.
I would start not by learning a programming language but the fundementals like below 1) computer organisation 2) operating systems theory 3) fundementals of programming (oop and functional) 4) data structures 5) Compiler design and principles 6) dbms concepts
As a budding hardware designer you might want to learn Bluespec. This is a very high-level hardware-description language based on work done at MIT. It's both a language and a company. They have some very impressive results on modularity, predictability, and reuse in hardware design. Check out the page on the Bluespec compiler and find out if you want to pursue it.
I was wondering what you think would be a good language/few languages to become more proficient in, or to explore for a first time?
What do you want to accomplish? You seem to have a good grasp of many popular languages with several typing systems and paradigms. If you want to learn something else new, I would recommend functional programming as it's vastly different from anything you will have encountered before (imagine trying to write a program without an assignment operator eg. =) and becoming more and more useful. Haskell, Scala, and F# are all forerunners of the functional programming pack.
Also, what level of programming you prefer?
It all depends on what you want to do and what skills you want to use. Hardware and system programming will involve more low level stuff (assem, C, C++). The others are less language specific, but involve other skills, like a thorough knowledge of networks and APIs.
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Closed 11 years ago.
Question 1: How exactly do modern computer language come into being and why? How do they get their start and who is behind them?
Question 2: If any, what languages currently in their infancy are showing promise?
How exactly do modern computer language come into being and why? How do they get their start and who is behind them?
It's a multistage process:
Pointy-headed type theorists and other professionals are continually proposing new language features. You can read about them in places like the Proceedings of the ACM Symposium on Principles of Programming Languages (POPL), which has been held annually since 1973.
Many of these proposals are actually implemented in some research language; some research languages I personally find promising include Coq and Agda. Haskell is a former research language that made it big. A research language that gets 10 users is often considered a success by its designers. Many research languages never get that far.
From research to deployment I know of two models:
Model A: A talented amateur comes along and synthesizes a whole bunch of existing features, maybe including some new ideas, into a new language. The amateur has talent, charisma, and maybe a killer app. Thus C, Perl, Python, Ruby, and Tcl are born.
Model P: A talented professional make career sacrifices in order to build and promulgate a new language. The professional has talent, a deep knowledge of the field, and maybe a killer app. Thus Haskell, Lua, ML, Pascal, Scala, and Scheme are born.
My definition of a professional is someone who is paid to know about programming languages, to pass on that knowledge, and to develop new knowledge in programming languages. Unfortunately this is not the same as designing and implementing new languages, and it is not the same as making implementations that many people can use. This is why most successful programming languages are designed and built by amateurs, not professionals.
There have been quite a few interesting research languages that have had hundreds or even thousands of users but yet never quite made it big. Of these one of my favorites is probably Icon. I have argued elsewhere that nobody really knows why languages become popular.
Summary: Languages come into being because people want to make programming better, and they have new ideas. Languages get their start when somebody takes a whole bunch of ideas, some new and some proven, and synthesizes them into a coherent whole. It's a big job. The person behind a new language might be a programming-language professional, but historically, most languages that become widely used seem to have been created by talented amateurs.
Answer 2: Fortran 2008 looks very promising.
Come on, bring on the downvotes you humourless Java-teenies, Pythonettes, Rubes and Haskellites !
1) Most development environments these days are built to abstract a lot of low-level/inner workings of an platform to speed up development and cater for new user-interfaces and plaform technologies. There are a both open-source projects and corporates behind these changes... For instance an example would be jQuery is a newish Library that just wraps a lot of javascript making things easier and cross-platform...
Bjarne Stroustrup wrote a book on the history of C++, called "The Design and Evolution of C++".
The genesis of a programming language is always a different story. I'm currently reading "Masterming of programming", which is a series of interview with authors of popular languages. They explain what problems they tackled and how the language was born -- a really cool book.
The TIOBE index can give somehow a trend amongst the programming languages, including the emerging ones. I bet that the future lies in language that will run on top of the JVM or CLR (Notably due to the effort invested in the VMs which are now really great). Concurrency seems to be one of the hot problem of today; so I guess we will see some interesting moves in this area (e.g. Clojure).
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Closed 11 years ago.
I have read numerous time that learning a language such as Haskell, Lisp or Smalltalk will somehow make you a better programmer while you program in other languages.
Is there more than just anecdotal evidence for that claim?
Or is it just the way people rationalize having spend a lot of time learning a programming language that they will never use?
IMHO, it is all about learning a new programming paradigm. If you know Java and then C#, there's not much gain, once both of them have almost the same "type of programming".
But if you get to learn a functional language or dynamic, for instance, you're forced to think another way, and that will probably help you to program better in your favorite language.
It is something like: "It is so easy doing this in {different language you learned}. There must be a better way to do this in {language you already know}". And then you rethink, and build up a more elegant way to do this in {language you already know}.
I don't have any hard evidence, but I have really appreciated the different way of looking at problems that I have since learning lisp (the same goes for python and c).
The key isn't necessarily learning different languages though, I believe that the key is actually the different viewpoints that you gain by learning different programming styles.
Good examples are functional, imperative, object-oriented, etc. Also, there are common design differences is interpreted vs compiled languages; static vs dynamic typing, etc.
Although most people do a majority of their programming using a single style (most commonly OOP over the past few years), I think that all programmers should know multiple styles so that they are better able to see the shortfalls of their own style.
Can't shed much light on this in terms of programming languages, but it seems very similar to the "why learn a dead language?" argument that surrounds Latin, and much of the reasoning there can be applied here.
Programming is a way of thinking, not writing code in programming language X: that is "coding", not "programming".
By knowing at least something about more than just one programming language - preferably across different paradigms, so imperative/OOP/functional/logical - you train that way of thinking about problems outside the context of the specific details and quirks of language X.
I think this always improves your abilities to be(come) a better programmer tremendously.
A great side-effect of learning new languages is the potential for application in your existing language.
For instance, I'm a Java programmer and I took the time to learn my first functional language (Haskell). I was recently asked to learn Scala for an upcoming project. This is extremely easy since I understand the comcepts of guards, recursion, etc. from Haskell.
Deeply learning language just for learning language has too little benefits. If you have a lot of tasks and you don't know language that ideal for solving it then it is make sense to learn that language. Otherwise it is make sense to spend the time to become expert in languages you already know.
I don't know that there will have been much rigorous study regarding the benefits of multi-programming language exposure on overall programming ability, but I would argue that the studies regarding why learning a foreign human language (which you may never use in practice) is beneficial would in general hold equally well for studying foreign programming languages. The benefits ascribed often include improved cognitive abilities as well as improved understanding of one's native language.
here's some links to studies
anecdotally, I complained a great deal about taking COBOL, and have never really used it but was able to apply things I learned in that class at my first job.
If you give any credence to the Pragmatic Programming guys, consider their advice from page 14 of their first book:
Learn at least one new language every year. Different languages
solve the same problems in different ways. By learning several
different approaches, you can help broaden your thinking and avoid
getting stuck in a rut.
Some examples that come to mind:
Knowing C and having to deal with memory management and do-it-yourself data structures can help you understand performance issues when programming in a higher level language where those details are hidden from you.
Conversely, learning an OO language can affect your C programming - with, for example, the concept of Polymorphism prompting you to use function pointers in ways you might not have otherwise.
Learning a language where functions are first class objects that can be passed around can make you think of similar techniques in other languages, even if, in those other languages, you have to make the functions methods in objects that get passed around.
Learning about the way Erlang handles concurrency can make you rethink how much shared state you use between threads in other languages.
Any language that has a built-in feature you find useful can prompt you to implement your own version of that feature in another language that doesn't have it, and thus allow you to solve problems in ways you might not have thought of if you hadn't been exposed to the feature in the language that has it built-in.
Learning about Interfaces in Java can make you think about the benefits of precisely specifying your (small "i") interfaces in other languages that don't have them as a formal construct in a type system.
No doubt there are others.
Learning a language is not a binary event. If you are a decent programmer, you should be able to trust your own instincts as to whether a language offers you a new take on your craft.
Virtually every language worth considering these days can be downloaded and test-driven in a couple of minutes. So do it -- pick one and try it out.
There are a limited number of cases where this "laissez-faire" approach falls short. If you're a complete beginner, of course it doesn't work. When I first learned C, I had to have it beaten into me, but it did turn out to be worth it because it made me understand pointers, memory reference and dynamic allocation in a way I hadn't previously.
But if you know that much already, just poke around and look for a language that makes your lightbulb go on.
Different languages have different ways of implementing the same ideas. By learning new languages, you get a different perspective on how things can be accomplished, and can then use that knowledge to approach how you program in your current environment. Think about object oriented and functional programming. OO Programmers can learn a lot about parrellization from languages like C.
Learning a language, especially one that practices a new paradigm, is very beneficial for every programmer. For example learning Scheme will help someone understand functional programming. The programmer can later practice what he/she learned with other languages like C#. She can think of new ways of doing things.
Also, as languages evolve, it's high likely that the language you use will adopt some features of other languages. Having taught myself Ruby, I was able to grasp the changes in C# 3.0 much easier.
I think learning languages will always benefit you even if you don't use them again. I started playing with Ioke as an attempt to learn something experimental and because of it my JavaScript has improved because certain ideas have been cemented.
learning a new language will possibly give you new insights that you will try translate to your main language.
I don't think there will be any hard evidence--I think this is more of an intuitive thing. Learning a totally different language will help you look at things totally different. Or maybe it won't. In any case, what's the harm in learning something?
It's entirely subjective, but way back when, after taking an undergraduate course in Haskell, I did notice that my programming style in C became more 'Haskell-like' for a while; I used a lot of simple, recursive functions. I also noticed that this programming style seemed to yield some of the same benefits programming in Haskell had; bugs were fewer, code was easier to understand (albeit slower).
So, while learning another programming language may not make everyone a better programmer, it definitely was a learning experience for me, personally.
What are the benefits of learning mathematics or physics that you won't use, or the benefits of studying philosophy or dead tongues?
It's the intellectual achievement and the enlightenment what matters, you will be a wiser person with any new thing that you learn, no matter if they are programming languages, literature, role playing games... of course if it's related to your working field, then you'll actually find a use, sooner or later :-)
I spent some time studying clojure even though I knew I wouldn't use it in the near-term (mostly because I can't really deploy on the JVM).
It has concepts that aren't supported by the languages I use (C#/C/C++/Python/Perl) and I wanted to know what I was missing and also if it would be worth looking into libraries that purport to add these features.
Specifically, I'm very interested in understanding Lisp-style macros and the direct concurrency support. I also spent some time reading the implementation, specifically the datastructures, which was very educational -- good to see a quality implementation of persistent datastructures to learn how they work (and give you immutability without sacrificing much performance).
Bryond what has already been said, I really like new languages just because it can bring new interest to programming. You learn different ways to approach problems and the strengths/weaknesses of certain languages. It is something new to learn and any good programmer should be striving to always be learning new things. It mixes up your daily routine of possibly programming in the same language for years.
I also like what everyone has said about programming perspective.
Some good points have been made.
I would add that learning languages you won't use in production work can be of value
To better appreciate and absorb the arguments and methods in texts and papers that will improve programming ability in languages I do use for production work (e.g. MIX/MMIX for Knuth's Art of Computer Programming; RATFOR for Kernighan and Plauger's Software Tools; I still use some ALGOL-based syntax for some pseudocode although I never wrote runnable code in ALGOL outside University)
To be able to check or prototype programs that will be written in a different language (e.g. some routines for numerical computing in C can be quickly checked or scaled using languages that have appropriate functionality built in such as Fortran, Python or Haskell)
Learning a new language can give insight as to how it could be used to more easily solve problems that were put to one side because of time or complexity constraints.
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Closed 10 years ago.
Okay, so far, I have been taking computer science courses in my high school and doing some of my own research on the web, and I have found I really like the subject. However, the computer science courses, having given me a small amount of experience in a few languages (C++, java, and python), leave me wondering where to go for development on my own.
I would like to create desktop applications, or even web applications if I could wrap my head around it. What language would you think would best facilitate this?
As a side-note, what are some good books or online documents that explain general computer science topics? I have found some good ones, but they haven't given me the depth I really want.What are some good ones?
Find an "itch"--a program you wish existed, that would be useful for you to have, but you can't find (or costs money). Then try writing it, using online resources (like Stack Overflow) to help you.
At this stage in your career, language doesn't matter very much. Some languages are better than others at certain tasks, but often your own level of comfort with the language outweighs other issues. So just pick a language you're interested in, and a project you're interested in, and get to work.
You may find that you need to start with a simpler project, or you may find more resources for a different language or framework. But getting started with something--no matter what that something is--is probably the most important thing.
Here is a classic but still quite relevant book if you ever want to level up from coder to software engineer.
Since you're still in high school, I would tell you that time is on your side. You have plenty of time to develop as a computer scientist. Therefore, take the long view for your development. So it's much better for you to understand the abstractions that underly software technology.
In my humble opinion, C++ and Java will always be around and you have plenty of time to develop your skills in that arena. However, a higher level language like Scheme or Python will pay plenty of dividends. You might find this recommendation highly enlightening.
In addition, every application will deal with a database as its system of record. Understanding SQL and data modeling is a win-win.
Also, understanding formal logic and/or discrete mathematics is indispensable for computer science. Computer languages are nothing but formal languages for executing
procedures: i.e. mathematical induction is used to define their syntax and semantics.
It sounds like you would enjoy jumping into a high level, modern language that's native to the operating system you want to target; Objective-C or C# for example. On the other hand if you really want to do something for the web, building a web app isn't much harder (there are just more choices to pick from for the back end and front end technologies you decide to use).
Basically, decide what project you want to work on and choose the best language for it. What really matters is that you're working on something.
What language to further develop in?
Given that you know C++, Java, and Python already, a next language I might suggest would be SQL and DDL: defining databases, and getting data in and out of them.
If your CS course didn't touch on it, I highly advise spending a bit of time with a more functional style of language like erlang, haskell or even lisp.
They won't become your day-to-day hacking language overnight, but can really help you grasp important programming concepts relavent accross all languages.
....especially the one about choosing the right language for the task at hand.