This is a question about salting phrases that need to be hashed.
I was wondering if it more secure to prefix the salt to a phrase or postfix it?
salt + phrase or
phrase + salt
My question comes from this comment on this post on MD5s. I am not sure I understand the reasoning behind the author's comment.
Whether the salt is appended to the front or the back makes no difference.
The following factors will affect security though
Is your salt private (if so how private is it?). The more private the better. This means that if you can avoid storing your salt in your db you can make your system safe against brute force attacks even if your db is compromised.
Is your salt random per value salted? This helps defend against rainbow table attacks if say your db is compromised and your salt is stored in the db. Note: if passwords being stored are long enough they can be immune to brute force attacks.
Is your salt long enough? The longer your salt the more secure you are.
When someone has a question about the use of salts I fear it is because they are busy (re)inventing things they really shouldn't be in the first place. Based on the question my recommendation is to use an HMAC.
It doesn't matter when you digest the salt: prefix, postfix, infix all produce different hashes, but achieve the same purpose of defeating rainbow tables or other pre-hashed dictionary attacks.
I think that the comment has to do specifically with a vulnerability in MD5, not hashing in general. I don't understand the details, but it has to do with finding two prefixes that produce the same hash.
unlike what others said, it does matter! and as #einstein if you care use HMAC.
why prefix is bad, because one can calculate the intermediate state of the checksum up to the given fixed salt prefix. then start calculating the rest in parallel. In summary phrase+salt is more secure than salt+phrase, but HMAC(salt, phrase) is even better.
related reading
Technically it doesn't matter, so long as the salt is unique and not easily guessable. Just don't make the mistake of storing the salt, like I did.
The purpose of "salting" a string is to scramble it in a way a bit more personal and unique than an MD5 hash will do. There's no right or wrong way to do it, just so long as you're the only one that knows how it works. It will achieve the result either way, which is to make the MD5 hashes generated not correspond with a rainbow table for easy cracking of passwords.
Related
I have an application whose source code is checked into a public repository. This source code includes configuration files, and in those configuration files are SHA-256 hashed passwords.
My understanding is that when it comes to hashed passwords, an end user doesn't actually have to enter the password you used to generate the hash, but any password that generates the same hash value. I believe this is called a collision.
So can I display my hashed passwords in public with a reasonable assurance that someone can't take that hash and then generate a password (or generate a collection) that can be used to get access to my application? Is that a guarantee that these hashing algorithms try to make?
There are no known practical attacks against SHA-2 in the general case. It's generally considered better to keep hashed passwords secret, though, because there are rainbow tables, dictionary attacks, and other such things. If you took the proper precautions such as salting, round robin hashing, and having a nice long passphrase, it should be perfectly safe.
It's still better to not do this, though. You never know what cryptographic attacks might be developed in the future.
It is not likely for someone to reverse a HASH, SHA1, SALT etc. There are some ways out there to reverse one, but if you think your at that much of a risk I'd use SHA1 and SALT for maximum security. Having a long password makes it difficult to reverse, but unless they are real seasoned coders, your not very like to be a victim of it.
Read up on the algorithms at Wikipedia...
SHA1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA-1
SALT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_(cryptography)
Just use a unique password and you should be fine ;-)
I mean actually making it hard to exploit even if the user has chosen a relatively simple password(s)? I can't think of anything besides using additional cryptographic functions.
There are a few things you can do:
A cryptographically stronger hashing algorithm.
Salts
Key strengthening (e.g. bcrypt / scrypt / PBKDF2)
Use all these techniques for the best security.
The last is not particularly efficient in terms of performance, but that's deliberate. The problem with most commonly used cryptographic hash functions is that they are designed to be fast to compute, which means that they are also fast to crack if the password is a dictionary word. The idea of key strengthening is to make the algorithm so slow to compute that even a weak password will take a long time to crack.
Don't think, read ;) (and ask on SO) You'll want to salt passwords with their own individual salt so that the same password won't result in the same hash
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_(cryptography)
You might want to add a salt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_(cryptography) to the password you're going to hash. Anyway, be aware that there'll always be some risk associated with hashing a password, take a look at this article http://www.f-secure.com/weblog/archives/00002095.html
Leave crypto security, and analysis of it, to the experts, and just use a better crypto function.
Not using MD5 for hashing passwords. The same goes for about any hash function that's optimized for throughput. The idea of SHA1 and MD5 is, that you can generate a compact representation of virtually unlimited amounts of data, so that you can check it's integrity and also sign it cryptographically.
The idea of hashing passwords is, that you cannot retrieve the password from the hash. However most passwords are shorter than their hash, and implementing a brute force or dictionary attack is trivial. So given a hash, the used hash function one can implement the check logic locally -- possibly on a massive parallel computer, think GPU -- and break passwords reasonably fast.
What you actually want to do is using a hash function, that's so computationally intense that hashing takes so much time, that even attempting a brute force attack on a 4 character password took hours.
Just add some salt to the user entered password.
$salt = 'random string';
md5(sha1(md5($salt . $_POST['password'])));
Almost no way that result can be cracked.
Let's say I have a table of users set up like this:
CREATE TABLE `users` (
`id` INTEGER PRIMARY KEY,
`name` TEXT,
`hashed_password` TEXT,
`salt` TEXT
)
When a user is created, a randomly-generated salt is produced and stored in the database alongside the results of something like get_hash(salt + plaintext_password).
I'm wondering that if a malicious user gets their hands on this data, would they be able to use it to crack users's passwords? If so, what's a way that it could be prevented?
No, they're not useless.
So long as you use a unique salt for each row, then the salt will prevent slow down an attack. The attacker will need to mount a brute force attack, rather than using rainbow tables against the password hashes.
As mentioned in the comments, you should ensure that the salt is a sensible size.
Salting was introduced (or at least made popular) in UNIX /etc/passwd file, which was world-readable. It is usually assumed that the salt as well as the encrypted password is known to the cracker. The purpose of the salt is the slow-down of the cracking process (since the same password won't map to the same encrypted string); it is not a secret in itself.
Knowing the salt makes it possible to do a brute-force attack, but that doesn't make it useless. Salt prevents the attacker from using an already generated rainbow table (which you could find on the web).
The best way to prevent brute-forcing is simply to use long, complex passwords.
If an attacker knows the salt, the hashed password and the hash algorithm, then they can mount a brute-force dictionary attack (or rainbow attack).
This should give you an idea of how it works.
Lets say you want to encrypt a word "secret." After it is encrypted lets say it now looks like this 00110010.
If a hacker knows the encryption algorithm, they can create a table of words and their corresponding encrypted values. So they take the encrypted password "00110010" and find it in the table. Now they know that the password used to generate "00110010" was the word "secret." If you salt the word first, then a generic lookup table will be useless to the hacker. (A generic lookup table being a table of unsalted dictionary words and their encrypted values)
If you salt the word first ("saltsecret"), now the encrypted value will look different, and the hacker wont find it in the lookup table.
However, they can still start creating their own lookup table from scratch using your salt and eventually they will be able to reverse lookup passwords.
So to answer the question, if the passwords are sufficiently complex, it will take ages for the hacker to figure them out. You could change your salt every year and they would have to start creating a table all over again.
No, it's not worthless.
To successfully attack an account, an attacker needs to know the salt for that account (and every account's salt should be different), the hashing algorightm used, and the final stored password hash.
Given all of that information, you can write a program that keeps trying to hash different potential passwords until it finds one that matches.
If it's a bad salt (too simple or short), this can be made much faster because the program can use rainbow lookup tables to match the final stored password hash to the string that was hashed, and then just subtract the salt. But they still need all the information.
If it's a shared salt, this is bad because an attacker and use the salt to generate a rainbow table in advance that's good for any account on your system.
Assuming brute force attack of MD5,SHA1,SHA256 algorithms with GPU has a throughput greater than 1 billion of tries per second and SHA512 around 300M/s. If you use one of these algorithms, it will slow down hacker who used rainbow table (less likely), but it will not slow down hacker who used brute force attack (more likely). It will definitively not protect you, it just add a bit of security against outdated rainbow table (for these algo). A bit is better than nothing.
But if you use a strongest algorithm (eg. bcrypt), salt definitively worth it even if stored with hash because brut force is not feasible in term of time so rainbow make sense.
Have a look at this
article and to summarize:
If you are a user:
Make sure all your passwords are 12 characters or more, ideally a lot more. I recommend adopting pass phrases, which are not only a lot easier to remember than passwords (if not type) but also ridiculously secure against brute forcing purely due to their length.
If you are a developer:
Use bcrypt or PBKDF2 exclusively to hash anything you need to be secure. These new hashes were specifically designed to be difficult to implement on GPUs. Do not use any other form of hash. Almost every other popular hashing scheme is vulnerable to brute forcing by arrays of commodity GPUs, which only get faster and more parallel and easier to program for every year.
Posted by Jeff Atwood
At work we have two competing theories for salts. The products I work on use something like a user name or phone number to salt the hash. Essentially something that is different for each user but is readily available to us. The other product randomly generates a salt for each user and changes each time the user changes the password. The salt is then encrypted in the database.
My question is if the second approach is really necessary? I can understand from a purely theoretical perspective that it is more secure than the first approach, but what about from a practicality point of view. Right now to authenticate a user, the salt must be unencrypted and applied to the login information.
After thinking about it, I just don't see a real security gain from this approach. Changing the salt from account to account, still makes it extremely difficult for someone to attempt to brute force the hashing algorithm even if the attacker was aware of how to quickly determine what it was for each account. This is going on the assumption that the passwords are sufficiently strong. (Obviously finding the correct hash for a set of passwords where they are all two digits is significantly easier than finding the correct hash of passwords which are 8 digits). Am I incorrect in my logic, or is there something that I am missing?
EDIT: Okay so here's the reason why I think it's really moot to encrypt the salt. (lemme know if I'm on the right track).
For the following explanation, we'll assume that the passwords are always 8 characters and the salt is 5 and all passwords are comprised of lowercase letters (it just makes the math easier).
Having a different salt for each entry means that I can't use the same rainbow table (actually technically I could if I had one of sufficient size, but let's ignore that for the moment). This is the real key to the salt from what I understand, because to crack every account I have to reinvent the wheel so to speak for each one. Now if I know how to apply the correct salt to a password to generate the hash, I'd do it because a salt really just extends the length/complexity of the hashed phrase. So I would be cutting the number of possible combinations I would need to generate to "know" I have the password + salt from 13^26 to 8^26 because I know what the salt is. Now that makes it easier, but still really hard.
So onto encrypting the salt. If I know the salt is encrypted, I wouldn't try and decrypt (assuming I know it has a sufficient level of encryption) it first. I would ignore it. Instead of trying to figure out how to decrypt it, going back to the previous example I would just generate a larger rainbow table containing all keys for the 13^26. Not knowing the salt would definitely slow me down, but I don't think it would add the monumental task of trying to crack the salt encryption first. That's why I don't think it's worth it. Thoughts?
Here is a link describing how long passwords will hold up under a brute force attack:
http://www.lockdown.co.uk/?pg=combi
Hiding a salt is unnecessary.
A different salt should be used for every hash. In practice, this is easy to achieve by getting 8 or more bytes from cryptographic quality random number generator.
From a previous answer of mine:
Salt helps to thwart pre-computed dictionary attacks.
Suppose an attacker has a list of likely passwords. He can hash each
and compare it to the hash of his victim's password, and see if it
matches. If the list is large, this could take a long time. He doesn't
want spend that much time on his next target, so he records the result
in a "dictionary" where a hash points to its corresponding input. If
the list of passwords is very, very long, he can use techniques like a
Rainbow Table to save some space.
However, suppose his next target salted their password. Even if the
attacker knows what the salt is, his precomputed table is
worthless—the salt changes the hash resulting from each password. He
has to re-hash all of the passwords in his list, affixing the target's
salt to the input. Every different salt requires a different
dictionary, and if enough salts are used, the attacker won't have room
to store dictionaries for them all. Trading space to save time is no
longer an option; the attacker must fall back to hashing each password
in his list for each target he wants to attack.
So, it's not necessary to keep the salt secret. Ensuring that the
attacker doesn't have a pre-computed dictionary corresponding to that
particular salt is sufficient.
After thinking about this a bit more, I've realized that fooling yourself into thinking the salt can be hidden is dangerous. It's much better to assume the salt cannot be hidden, and design the system to be safe in spite of that. I provide a more detailed explanation in another answer.
However, recent recommendations from NIST encourage the use of an additional, secret "salt" (I've seen others call this additional secret "pepper"). One additional iteration of the key derivation can be performed using this secret as a salt. Rather than increasing strength against a pre-computed lookup attack, this round protects against password guessing, much like the large number of iterations in a good key derivation function. This secret serves no purpose if stored with the hashed password; it must be managed as a secret, and that could be difficult in a large user database.
The answer here is to ask yourself what you're really trying to protect from? If someone has access to your database, then they have access to the encrypted salts, and they probably have access to your code as well. With all that could they decrypt the encrypted salts? If so then the encryption is pretty much useless anyway. The salt really is there to make it so it isn't possible to form a rainbow table to crack your entire password database in one go if it gets broken into. From that point of view, so long as each salt is unique there is no difference, a brute force attack would be required with your salts or the encrypted salts for each password individually.
A hidden salt is no longer salt. It's pepper. It has its use. It's different from salt.
Pepper is a secret key added to the password + salt which makes the hash into an HMAC (Hash Based Message Authentication Code). A hacker with access to the hash output and the salt can theoretically brute force guess an input which will generate the hash (and therefore pass validation in the password textbox). By adding pepper you increase the problem space in a cryptographically random way, rendering the problem intractable without serious hardware.
For more information on pepper, check here.
See also hmac.
My understanding of "salt" is that it makes cracking more difficult, but it doesn't try to hide the extra data. If you are trying to get more security by making the salt "secret", then you really just want more bits in your encryption keys.
The second approach is only slightly more secure. Salts protect users from dictionary attacks and rainbow table attacks. They make it harder for an ambitious attacker to compromise your entire system, but are still vulnerable to attacks that are focused on one user of your system. If you use information that's publicly available, like a telephone number, and the attacker becomes aware of this, then you've saved them a step in their attack. Of course the question is moot if the attacker gets your whole database, salts and all.
EDIT: After re-reading over this answer and some of the comments, it occurs to me that some of the confusion may be due to the fact that I'm only comparing the two very specific cases presented in the question: random salt vs. non-random salt. The question of using a telephone number as a salt is moot if the attacker gets your whole database, not the question of using a salt at all.
... something like a user name or phone number to salt the hash. ...
My question is if the second approach is really necessary? I can understand from a purely theoretical perspective that it is more secure than the first approach, but what about from a practicality point of view?
From a practical point of view, a salt is an implementation detail. If you ever change how user info is collected or maintained – and both user names and phone numbers sometimes change, to use your exact examples – then you may have compromised your security. Do you want such an outward-facing change to have much deeper security concerns?
Does stopping the requirement that each account have a phone number need to involve a complete security review to make sure you haven't opened up those accounts to a security compromise?
Here is a simple example showing why it is bad to have the same salt for each hash
Consider the following table
UserId UserName, Password
1 Fred Hash1 = Sha(Salt1+Password1)
2 Ted Hash2 = Sha(Salt2+Password2)
Case 1 when salt 1 is the same as salt2
If Hash2 is replaced with Hash1 then user 2 could logon with user 1 password
Case 2 when salt 1 not the same salt2
If Hash2 is replaced with Hash1 then user2 can not logon with users 1 password.
There are two techniques, with different goals:
The "salt" is used to make two otherwise equal passwords encrypt differently. This way, an intruder can't efficiently use a dictionary attack against a whole list of encrypted passwords.
The (shared) "secret" is added before hashing a message, so that an intruder can't create his own messages and have them accepted.
I tend to hide the salt. I use 10 bits of salt by prepending a random number from 1 to 1024 to the beginning of the password before hashing it. When comparing the password the user entered with the hash, I loop from 1 to 1024 and try every possible value of salt until I find the match. This takes less than 1/10 of a second. I got the idea to do it this way from the PHP password_hash and password_verify. In my example, the "cost" is 10 for 10 bits of salt. Or from what another user said, hidden "salt" is called "pepper". The salt is not encrypted in the database. It's brute forced out. It would make the rainbow table necessary to reverse the hash 1000 times larger. I use sha256 because it's fast, but still considered secure.
Really, it depends on from what type of attack you're trying to protect your data.
The purpose of a unique salt for each password is to prevent a dictionary attack against the entire password database.
Encrypting the unique salt for each password would make it more difficult to crack an individual password, yes, but you must weigh whether there's really much of a benefit. If the attacker, by brute force, finds that this string:
Marianne2ae85fb5d
hashes to a hash stored in the DB, is it really that hard to figure out what which part is the pass and which part is the salt?
UPDATE: I recently learned from this question that in the entire discussion below, I (and I am sure others did too) was a bit confusing: What I keep calling a rainbow table, is in fact called a hash table. Rainbow tables are more complex creatures, and are actually a variant of Hellman Hash Chains. Though I believe the answer is still the same (since it doesn't come down to cryptanalysis), some of the discussion might be a bit skewed.
The question: "What are rainbow tables and how are they used?"
Typically, I always recommend using a cryptographically-strong random value as salt, to be used with hash functions (e.g. for passwords), such as to protect against Rainbow Table attacks.
But is it actually cryptographically necessary for the salt to be random? Would any unique value (unique per user, e.g. userId) suffice in this regard? It would in fact prevent using a single Rainbow Table to crack all (or most) passwords in the system...
But does lack of entropy really weaken the cryptographic strength of the hash functions?
Note, I am not asking about why to use salt, how to protect it (it doesn't need to be), using a single constant hash (don't), or what kind of hash function to use.
Just whether salt needs entropy or not.
Thanks all for the answers so far, but I'd like to focus on the areas I'm (a little) less familiar with. Mainly implications for cryptanalysis - I'd appreciate most if anyone has some input from the crypto-mathematical PoV.
Also, if there are additional vectors that hadn't been considered, that's great input too (see #Dave Sherohman point on multiple systems).
Beyond that, if you have any theory, idea or best practice - please back this up either with proof, attack scenario, or empirical evidence. Or even valid considerations for acceptable trade-offs... I'm familiar with Best Practice (capital B capital P) on the subject, I'd like to prove what value this actually provides.
EDIT: Some really good answers here, but I think as #Dave says, it comes down to Rainbow Tables for common user names... and possible less common names too. However, what if my usernames are globally unique? Not necessarily unique for my system, but per each user - e.g. email address.
There would be no incentive to build a RT for a single user (as #Dave emphasized, the salt is not kept secret), and this would still prevent clustering. Only issue would be that I might have the same email and password on a different site - but salt wouldnt prevent that anyway.
So, it comes back down to cryptanalysis - IS the entropy necessary, or not? (My current thinking is it's not necessary from a cryptanalysis point of view, but it is from other practical reasons.)
Salt is traditionally stored as a prefix to the hashed password. This already makes it known to any attacker with access to the password hash. Using the username as salt or not does not affect that knowledge and, therefore, it would have no effect on single-system security.
However, using the username or any other user-controlled value as salt would reduce cross-system security, as a user who had the same username and password on multiple systems which use the same password hashing algorithm would end up with the same password hash on each of those systems. I do not consider this a significant liability because I, as an attacker, would try passwords that a target account is known to have used on other systems first before attempting any other means of compromising the account. Identical hashes would only tell me in advance that the known password would work, they would not make the actual attack any easier. (Note, though, that a quick comparison of the account databases would provide a list of higher-priority targets, since it would tell me who is and who isn't reusing passwords.)
The greater danger from this idea is that usernames are commonly reused - just about any site you care to visit will have a user account named "Dave", for example, and "admin" or "root" are even more common - which would make construction of rainbow tables targeting users with those common names much easier and more effective.
Both of these flaws could be effectively addressed by adding a second salt value (either fixed and hidden or exposed like standard salt) to the password before hashing it, but, at that point, you may as well just be using standard entropic salt anyhow instead of working the username into it.
Edited to Add: A lot of people are talking about entropy and whether entropy in salt is important. It is, but not for the reason most of the comments on it seem to think.
The general thought seems to be that entropy is important so that the salt will be difficult for an attacker to guess. This is incorrect and, in fact, completely irrelevant. As has been pointed out a few times by various people, attacks which will be affected by salt can only be made by someone with the password database and someone with the password database can just look to see what each account's salt is. Whether it's guessable or not doesn't matter when you can trivially look it up.
The reason that entropy is important is to avoid clustering of salt values. If the salt is based on username and you know that most systems will have an account named either "root" or "admin", then you can make a rainbow table for those two salts and it will crack most systems. If, on the other hand, a random 16-bit salt is used and the random values have roughly even distribution, then you need a rainbow table for all 2^16 possible salts.
It's not about preventing the attacker from knowing what an individual account's salt is, it's about not giving them the big, fat target of a single salt that will be used on a substantial proportion of potential targets.
Using a high-entropy salt is absolutely necessary to store passwords securely.
Take my username 'gs' and add it to my password 'MyPassword' gives gsMyPassword. This is easily broken using a rainbow-table because if the username hasn't got enough entropy it could be that this value is already stored in the rainbow-table, especially if the username is short.
Another problem are attacks where you know that a user participates in two or more services. There are lots of common usernames, probably the most important ones are admin and root. If somebody created a rainbow-table that have salts with the most common usernames, he could use them to compromise accounts.
They used to have a 12-bit salt. 12 bit are 4096 different combinations. That was not secure enough because that much information can be easily stored nowadays. The same applies for the 4096 most used usernames. It's likely that a few of your users will be choosing a username that belongs to the most common usernames.
I've found this password checker which works out the entropy of your password. Having smaller entropy in passwords (like by using usernames) makes it much easier for rainbowtables as they try to cover at least all passwords with low entropy, because they are more likely to occur.
It is true that the username alone may be problematic since people may share usernames among different website. But it should be rather unproblematic if the users had a different name on each website. So why not just make it unique on each website. Hash the password somewhat like this
hashfunction("www.yourpage.com/"+username+"/"+password)
This should solve the problem. I'm not a master of cryptanalysis, but I sure doubt that the fact that we don't use high entropy would make the hash any weaker.
I like to use both: a high-entropy random per-record salt, plus the unique ID of the record itself.
Though this doesn't add much to security against dictionary attacks, etc., it does remove the fringe case where someone copies their salt and hash to another record with the intention of replacing the password with their own.
(Admittedly it's hard to think of a circumstance where this applies, but I can see no harm in belts and braces when it comes to security.)
If the salt is known or easily guessable, you have not increased the difficulty of a dictionary attack. It even may be possible to create a modified rainbow table that takes a "constant" salt into account.
Using unique salts increases the difficulty of BULK dictionary attacks.
Having unique, cryptographically strong salt value would be ideal.
I would say that as long as the salt is different for each password, you will probably be ok. The point of the salt, is so that you can't use standard rainbow table to solve every password in the database. So if you apply a different salt to every password (even if it isn't random), the attacker would basically have to compute a new rainbow table for each password, since each password uses a different salt.
Using a salt with more entropy doesn't help a whole lot, because the attacker in this case is assumed to already have the database. Since you need to be able to recreate the hash, you have to already know what the salt is. So you have to store the salt, or the values that make up the salt in your file anyway. In systems like Linux, the method for getting the salt is known, so there is no use in having a secret salt. You have to assume that the attacker who has your hash values, probably knows your salt values as well.
The strength of a hash function is not determined by its input!
Using a salt that is known to the attacker obviously makes constructing a rainbow table (particularly for hard-coded usernames like root) more attractive, but it doesn't weaken the hash. Using a salt which is unknown to the attacker will make the system harder to attack.
The concatenation of a username and password might still provide an entry for an intelligent rainbow table, so using a salt of a series pseudo-random characters, stored with the hashed password is probably a better idea. As an illustration, if I had username "potato" and password "beer", the concatenated input for your hash is "potatobeer", which is a reasonable entry for a rainbow table.
Changing the salt each time the user changes their password might help to defeat prolonged attacks, as would the enforcement of a reasonable password policy, e.g. mixed case, punctuation, min length, change after n weeks.
However, I would say your choice of digest algorithm is more important. Use of SHA-512 is going to prove to be more of a pain for someone generating a rainbow table than MD5, for example.
Salt should have as much entropy as possible to ensure that should a given input value be hashed multiple times, the resulting hash value will be, as close as can be achieved, always different.
Using ever-changing salt values with as much entropy as possible in the salt will ensure that the likelihood of hashing (say, password + salt) will produce entirely different hash values.
The less entropy in the salt, the more chance you have of generating the same salt value, as thus the more chance you have of generating the same hash value.
It is the nature of the hash value being "constant" when the input is known and "constant" that allow dictionary attacks or rainbow tables to be so effective. By varying the resulting hash value as much as possible (by using high entropy salt values) ensures that hashing the same input+random-salt will produce many different hash value results, thereby defeating (or at least greatly reducing the effectiveness of) rainbow table attacks.
Entropy is the point of Salt value.
If there is some simple and reproducible "math" behind salt, than it's the same as the salt is not there. Just adding time value should be fine.