Does my question make sense? Using either Vim or Emacs, you come to understand that the interface exposes the code's representation of the state of the file you are editing in the buffer, the file is the on-disk storage you can fill a buffer from or write a buffer to. All these things a programmer would know, but when just editing text, why is it exposed? Any newer editor just tells you "Here is a file. Edit it."
Yes, I understand the technical meanings, but that isn't my question. This is a question not even about if it is a good idea to do it or not. Vim and Emacs are our two oldest editors in common use today, and they share this behavior. I know of no new editor that does the same. When did editors stop doing this and why?
For starters, Emacs uses plenty of buffers that aren't associated with any file. Any time you open a directory, read your mail, open a terminal, compile a program, launch an interactive Python session, or connect to a database, you get a buffer. Hence, Emacs's basic unit of work is a buffer and not a file, and the same logic holds for Vim.
New applications that only edit files make no distinction because every screen or window or tab directly represents a file. More capable applications like Emacs and Vim are a lot more flexible in that respect.
OK, here's my weird philosophical answer :
because late binding between the buffer in the editor and the actual concrete thing you're working on, gives the editing environment more flexibility and power.
Think this is out of date? One place where the idea is back with a vengeance is in the browser, where you don't have 1-1 correspondence between tabs and web-pages. Instead, inside each tab you can navigate forwards and backwards between multiple pages. No-one would try to make an MDI type interface to the web, where each page had it's own inner window. It would be impossibly fiddly to use. It just wouldn't scale.
Personally, I think IDEs are getting way too complicated these days, and the static binding between documents and buffers is one reason for this. I expect at some point there'll be a breakthrough as they move to the browser-like tabbed-buffer model where :
a) you'll be able to hyperlink between multiple files within the same buffer/tab (and there'll be a back-button etc.)
b) the generic buffers will be able to hold any type of data : source-code, command-line, dynamically generated graphic output, project outline etc.
In other words, much of the Vim / Emacs model, except tweaked to be more in-line with discoveries that browsers are making.
Because several buffers can show you different view of the same file. I do not know of other editors but this is true of Emacs. And what do you mean exactly with Old?
When applications started becoming used heavily by non-geeks who didn't want to trouble themselves with irrelevant detail.
I think the new editors quit doing it for the reasons you stated, that it is an abstraction that just gets in the way. Also most modern editors have unlimited undo, so the idea of the "buffer" is sort of implicit.
I guess I'm just an old fogey (in the die-hard vim camp), but the other editing packages I use, such as MS Word or Open Office, preserve the distinction between the copy of the file that I'm editing and the last saved version. That is utterly invaluable -- I don't want the editor to trample over my last good version until I'm ready for it to do so. Indeed, there's a decent chance (say one in a thousand) that I'll create a new file with the buffer I'm editing on.
On the other hand, the ability to create a file image by reading multiple files (either several copies of the same file, or copies of several different files) is also useful. There are faintly similar facilities in other documents.
So, I could be missing the point - I don't know which editors you are referring to as removing the distinction. But I think that all editors preserve the distinction between the copy of the file that you're editing and the last version saved to disk.
Because developers of those editors didn't care to hide implementation details from users.
Related
In the last 2-3 years that I started using Vim as my main editor, I've learned to use windows (splits) when working with multiple files (Because in every task, I need lots of files to work with)
But a few days ago, I ran into this question and it blow my mind (and my workflow :))
So I tried to use buffers and no windows and it's really hard. Imagine having multiple blocks (folders) and each one of them has a model.php and a controller.php in them.
So at the start of the task, I don't know which block I need, so after a few minutes, I'll open multiple model.phps and controller.phps.
Now, if I don't have every file that I need in my buffer, I must search buffer first and when I see that I didn't load it, now I have to use explorer and load the file into buffer. So it's something like this:
:ls<CR>
{If the file that I need is here then}
:b num<CR>
{else}
:FZF {and finding that file}
So it's a lot harder than just working with windows (Where I can see what files are loaded in front of me)
(And of course the overhead of finding buffers and searching them by name/number is like opening the file every time that you needed)
But as said in this question and lots of other places, buffers should make your workflow easier than windows and windows should be used only for diffs and etc.
So is there any better ways to use buffers or am I doing something wrong?
(BTW, I'm currently using :Buffers from fzf.vim)
So I tried to use buffers and no windows and it's really hard.
This means that you misunderstood both the spirit and the letter of the linked answer.
To recap, Vim's exact equivalent of "documents" in regular document-based applications is buffers. Vim also gives you a first layer of abstraction on top of buffers: windows, and another one on top of windows: tab pages in order to give you more flexibility with building your workflow.
Forcing oneself to use buffers instead of windows or instead of tab pages or whatever makes no sense as there is value in all three and such an attitude would only decrease the overall value of your editor. Use the interaction model that best suits your needs, not the interaction model that you convinced yourself is the purest.
As for the confusion between files and buffers, how about the confusion between files and tab pages or between buffers and windows? When you are dealing with abstractions built on top of other abstractions you have to have commands specific to one layer or another and learning how that layered cake works gives you the necessary intuition for deciding what command to use and when.
Basically, you have 3 cases:
Case #
Is a buffer
Is a file
1
Y
Y
2
Y
N
3
N
Y
In case #1, the buffer is associated with a file so you can use both file-centric and buffer-centric commands to reach your target.
In case #2, the buffer is not associated with a file so you can only use buffer-centric commands to reach your target.
In case #3, there is no buffer so yo can only use file-related commands to reach your target.
Another way to think about it is to ask the question "Have I already been there?". If the answer is "no", then use file-centric commands, if the answer is "yes", use buffer-centric commands. If you have no idea or if you don't want to think about any of this, just use file-centric commands as a fallback.
Note that the context of that answer was "buffers vs windows vs tab pages". Abstracting yourself away from the notions of files or documents is the real deal.
When speaking of "best workflow" we inevitably speak of our personal habits and tastes. So just remember that it's your editor, your workflow and your "best practices". Not someone else's.
Windows/tabs and buffers do not prohibit using each other. It is not a problem to open buffer in current window/tab even if it was already opened in another one (or even in dozen ones).
If you feel uncomfortable searching through the buffers list then try doing it with some alternative tools. For example, you like clicking with mouse then run GVim and browse through "Buffers" menu; or you are good at memorizing numbers then make all buffers numbers to show in status line and switch buffers by typing NN<Ctrl-^> directly; or you like reading file contents then find some plugin that shows also "a buffer preview" etc.etc.
I consider myself somewhat familiar with Vim,
hate the arrow keys (let alone the mouse),
regularly look up tips and plugins to get the most out of this tool,
use it daily to manage my cloud servers, etc.
However, I always find myself doing the same mistakes probably inherited from the GUI-world:
too often switching to visual mode to see what piece of code I'm about to manipulate,
undoing changes to retrieve lost statements because I forget to utilize registers (and pasting code on temporary lines just to grab it after other edits),
relying on Ctrl-C & Ctrl-V when working with operating system's clipboard,
keep pressing j button to browse through lengthy files to find certain functions.
Probably my Hungarian keyboard layout prevents me from being faster as most of the special characters (/, [, etc.) are only available as a key combination (with Shift or Alt Gr).
Given this specific situation, what pieces of advice could you give me? Have you faced similar bad habits when you were a Vim-novice? I'd like to see my productivity skyrocket (who wouldn't?). Thanks in advance.
I've found a simple, effective strategy. Choose one action, one task or one set of keys that you think is unnecessarily slow. Figure out a better way of doing this using the vim manual or googling or a plugin etc. Force yourself to use this every time. Rinse, and repeat. The path to efficiency is one-by-one elimination of the slow parts.
I'd also recommend just reading the vim manual from time to time - even if you don't remember everything, knowing something's out there is very helpful.
This probably applies well beyond vim, but
something that worked for me was finding a specific feature that I knew would
be more efficient and concentrate on using that for a week or two.
Just one feature at a time, and possibly using it excessively.
After a couple of weeks it becomes automatic and you can move on to the
next thing.
I learn programming tricks the same way. eg. I'll have a month of using lambda expressions for everything, then a month of mapping and filtering.
(not on production code though)
Probably my Hungarian keyboard layout prevents me from being faster as most of the special > characters (/, [, etc.) are only available as a key combination (with Shift or Alt Gr).
I'm sitting in front of german keyboards all day long and know this problem very well. Some keyboard layouts are simply not very suited for programming / using vim. I think its safe to assume that most programming languages and keyboard shortcuts were designed with the us-layout in mind.
My advice: reset your keyboard layout to us-english and practive touch-typing on that layout (typing without looking at the keys). It won't matter that the keyboard labels are wrong and you'll be much more comfortable using vim hotkeys.
The only problem that still remains for me is to produce language specific characters (german umlauts such as ä,ö,ü) wich i assume will also be a problem for hungarian. For that I use a combination of vim-digraphs, linux window manager digraph-key and windows layout-switching hotkeys.
just keep using it. The more you use it, the better you become at it. VIM isn't too bad. The main thing is you just have to remember that it isn't always in edit mode.
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Are there any editors that can edit multi-gigabyte text files, perhaps by only loading small portions into memory at once? It doesn't seem like Vim can handle it =(
Ctrl-C will stop file load. If the file is small enough you may have been lucky to have loaded all the contents and just killed any post load steps. Verify that the whole file has been loaded when using this tip.
Vim can handle large files pretty well. I just edited a 3.4GB file, deleting lines, etc. Three things to keep in mind:
Press Ctrl-C: Vim tries to read in the whole file initially, to do things like syntax highlighting and number of lines in file, etc. Ctrl-C will cancel this enumeration (and the syntax highlighting), and it will only load what's needed to display on your screen.
Readonly: Vim will likely start read-only when the file is too big for it to make a . file copy to perform the edits on. I had to w! to save the file, and that's when it took the most time.
Go to line: Typing :115355 will take you directly to line 115355, which is much faster going in those large files. Vim seems to start scanning from the beginning every time it loads a buffer of lines, and holding down Ctrl-F to scan through the file seems to get really slow near the end of it.
Note - If your Vim instance is in readonly because you hit Ctrl-C, it is possible that Vim did not load the entire file into the buffer. If that happens, saving it will only save what is in the buffer, not the entire file. You might quickly check with a G to skip to the end to make sure all the lines in your file are there.
If you are on *nix (and assuming you have to modify only parts of file (and rarely)), you may split the files (using the split command), edit them individually (using awk, sed, or something similar) and concatenate them after you are done.
cat file2 file3 >> file1
It may be plugins that are causing it to choke. (syntax highlighting, folds etc.)
You can run vim without plugins.
vim -u "NONE" hugefile.log
It's minimalist but it will at least give you the vi motions you are used to.
syntax off
is another obvious one. Prune your install down and source what you need. You'll find out what it's capable of and if you need to accomplish a task via other means.
A slight improvement on the answer given by #Al pachio with the split + vim solution you can read the files in with a glob, effectively using file chunks as a buffer e.g
$ split -l 5000 myBigFile
xaa
xab
xac
...
$ vim xa*
#edit the files
:nw #skip forward and write
:n! #skip forward and don't save
:Nw #skip back and write
:N! #skip back and don't save
You might want to check out this VIM plugin which disables certain vim features in the interest of speed when loading large files.
I've tried to do that, mostly with files around 1 GB when I needed to make some small change to an SQL dump. I'm on Windows, which makes it a major pain. It's seriously difficult.
The obvious question is "why do you need to?" I can tell you from experience having to try this more than once, you probably really want to try to find another way.
So how do you do it? There are a few ways I've done it. Sometimes I can get vim or nano to open the file, and I can use them. That's a really tough pain, but it works.
When that doesn't work (as in your case) you only have a few options. You can write a little program to make the changes you need (for example, search & replaces). You could use a command line program that may be able to do it (maybe it could be accomplished with sed/awk/grep/etc?)
If those don't work, you can always split the file into chunks (something like split being the obvious choice, but you could use head/tail to get the part you want) and then edit the part(s) that need it, and recombine later.
Trust me though, try to find another way.
I think it is reasonably common for hex editors to handle huge files. On Windows, I use HxD, which claims to handle files up to 8 EB (8 billion gigabytes).
I'm using vim 7.3.3 on Win7 x64 with the LargeFile plugin by Charles Campbell to handle multi-gigabyte plain text files. It works really well.
I hope you come right.
Wow, never managed to get vim to choke, even with a GB or two. I've heard that UltraEdit (on Windows) and BBEdit (on Macs) are even more suitable for even-larger files, but I have no personal experience.
In the past I opened up to a 3 gig file with this tool http://csved.sjfrancke.nl/
Personally, I like UltraEdit. Here is their little spiel on large files.
I've used FAR Commander's built-in editor/viewer for super-large log files.
I have used TextPad for large log files it doesn't have an upper limit.
The only thing I've been able to use for something like that is my favorite Mac hex editor, 0XED. However, that was with files that I considered large at tens of megabytes. I'm not sure how far it will go. I'm pretty sure it only loads parts of the file into memory at once, though.
In the past I've successfully used a split/edit/join approach when files get very large. For this to work you have to know about where the to-be-edited text is, in the original file.
I find the concept of the programmable, tiling, keyboard-focuessed window manager ion3 very appealing, but I think it takes some time to customize it to your needs until you can really evaluate this totally different UI-concept.
Therefore, I would like to read reviews of people who tried it for a longer time as environment for programming (in particular using emacs/gcc).
(The policies of the ion3-author concerning linux-distros are not easy to follow for me, but this should not be the point here...)
I use ion3 daily. It's a wonderful window manager. The tiling interface really enables you maximize real estate. Once you get it setup to your liking, it is much more efficient to navigate via the keyboard. Even moving applications between tiles isn't that hard once you get used to the tag/attach key sequence.
With ion3, Vimperator and the various shells I have open during the day -- I barely use the rodent.
The author's opinions aside -- a good resource for configuring/extending Ion to your liking can be found at:
Configuring and Extending Ion3 with Lua
I've been using Ion daily for nearly two years now. Good things:
Easy to use from the keyboard.
Handles multiple screens (Xinerama) very well (once you have the mod_xinerama plugin), especially as in my case the screens are different sizes.
Very predictable where windows will appear.
Splitting, resizing and moving windows is very easy.
Multiple, independent workspaces on each screen.
Very fast and reliable.
Bad things:
Too many different shortcuts. e.g. there are separate keys for moving to the next tab, next frame, next screen, and next workspace.
Applications that use lots of small windows together work really badly (e.g. the Gimp) because it maximises all of them on top of each other initially.
Sub-dialogs can cause trouble. Sometimes they open in a separate tab when you want them in the same tab, or sometimes the open in the same tab and take the focus when you want to continue interacting with the main window.
These things can probably be changed in the config files, but I haven't got around to it yet. Also, the actual C code is easy to read, and on the few occasions where I've wanted to fix something it has been very easy. I don't feel tempted to go back to a non-tiling WM, anyway.
I've used it off and on for the last few years, I think its a great window manager, but I keep crawling back to kde3 whatever I use.
Its however difficult to put into quantifiable terms why this happens, but its right up there with the gnome-vs-kde battle. Neither side can understand the other.
I would also just love to have kicker + ion3, but they don't gel awfully well.
Moving applications between tiles ( something I tend to do lots ) also is a bit inefficient ( too addicted to the mouse )
( Kicker + Evilwm is a good combination, but evilwm just can't handle stacking in a user-friendly way )
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Pretty much every other editor that isn't a vi descendant (vim, cream, vi-emu) seems to use the emacs shortcuts (ctrl+w to delete back a word and so on)
Early software was often modal, but usability took a turn at some point, away from this style.
VI-based editors are total enigmas -- they're the only real surviving members of that order of software.
Modes are a no-no in usability and interaction design because we humans are fickle mammals who cannot be trusted to remember what mode the application is in.
If you think you are in one "mode" when you are actually in another, then all sorts of badness can ensue. What you believe to be a series of harmless keystrokes can (in the wrong mode) cause unlimited catastrophe. This is known as a "mode error".
To learn more, search for the term "modeless" (and "usability")
As mentioned in the comments below, a Modal interface in the hands of an experienced and non-fickle person can be extremely efficient.
Um... maybe there isn't much of a need for one, given that Vi/Vim is pretty much available everywhere and got the whole modal thing right? :)
I think that it's because vi (and its ilk) already occupies the ecological niche of modal editors.
The number of people who prefer modal and haven't yet been attracted to vi is probably 0, so the hypothetical vi competitor would have to be so great as to make a significant number of vi users switch. This isn't likely. The cost of switching editors is huge and the vi-s are probably already as good as modal editors go. Well, maybe a significant breakthrough could improve upon them, but I find this unlikely.
#Leon: Great answer.
#dbr: Modal editing is something that takes a while to get used to. If you were to build a new editor that fits this paradigm, how would you improve on VI/VIM/Emacs? I think that is, in part, an answer to the question. Getting it "right" is hard enough, competing agains the likes of VI/VIM/Emacs would be extremely tough -- most people who use these editors are "die hard" fans, and you'd have to give them a compelling reason to move to another editor. Those people who don't use them already are most likely going to stay in a non-modal editor. IMHO of course ;)
Modal editors have the huge advantage to touch typists that you can navigate around the screen without taking your hands off the home row. My wrists only hurt when I'm doing stuff that requires me to move my hand off the keyboard and onto the mouse or arrow keys and back constantly.
Remember that Notepad is a modal editor!
To see this, try typing E, D, I, T; now try typing Alt, E, D, I, T. In the second case the Alt key activates the "menu mode" so the results are different. :oP People seem to cope with that.
(Yes, this is a feature of Windows rather than specifically of Notepad. I think it's a bad feature because it is easy to hit Alt by mistake and I don't think you can turn it off.)
VIM and emacs make about as much user interface design sense as qwerty. We now have available modern computer optimized key layouts (see the colemak layout and the carpalx project); it's only a matter of time before someone does the same for text editors.
I believe Eclipse has Vi bindings and there is a Visual Studio plugin/extension, too (which is called Vi-Emu, or something).
It's worth noting that the vi input models survival is in part due it's adoption in the POSIX standard, so investing time in learning would mean your guarenteed to be able to work on any system complying to these standards. So, like English, theres power in ubiquity.
As far as alternatives go, I doubt an alternate model editor would survive a 30 day free trial period, so its the same reason more people drive automatics than fly jets.
Since this is a question already at odds with the "no subjective issues" mantra, allow me to face that head on in kind.
Non-Modal editing seeks to solve the problem caused by non-modal editing in the first place.
Simply put, with Modal editing I can do nearly everything without my hands leaving the keyboard, and without even tormenting my pinky with reaching for the control, or interrupting my finger placement by hunting for the arrow keys.
Reaching for mouse completely interrupts the train of thought. I have hated the intense reliance upon this with Intellij IDEA and Netbeans for many years. Even with vim-style addons.
Most of what you do has to do with fine-tuning with very small increments and changes within the same paragraph of code. Move up, move over, change character, etc., etc. These things are interrupted with control keys and arrows and mouse.
Though not really answering your question, there used to be a "modal like" way to write Japanese on cell phones before :
The first letter you hit was a conson let's say K, and then, and then the next key you would hit would have the role of a conson. (Having two conson in a row is impossible in Japanese)
Though it was main a few years ago, today it's only used by people who really want to hit fast.
I think the answer to the question is actually there are quite a few modal text editors that aren't forks of vi/vim. However they all use the vi key bindings. Vi users get the key bindings into their muscle memory so relearning a different set of key bindings would be really hard, so no-one would create a different set of key bindings.
But lots of different editors have re-implemented the vi key bindings from scratch. Just look at this question about IDEs with vi key bindings. At least half of the answers are editors built from scratch that implement vi key bindings, not versions of vi embedded.
I recently came across divascheme - an alternative set of key bindings for DrScheme. This is modal, and part of the justification is to do with RSI - specifically avoiding lots of wrist twisting to hit Ctrl-Alt-Shift-something. The coder has done an informal survey of fellow coders and found that emacs users suffered from more wrist pain than vi coders.
You can see him doing a short talk at LugRadio Live USA. (The video is a series of 5 minute talks and I can't remember how far through it is, sorry - if someone watches it and posts that here I'll edit this post to say when in the video it is).
Note I have not used divascheme.
The invention of the mouse took one mode and moved it to an input device, and context menus took another mode and moved it to a button. Ironically, the advent of touch devices has had the reverse effect, producing multi-modal interfaces:
aware multi-modal - touch and speech are aware of each other and intersect
unaware multi-modal - touch and speech are unaware of each other and conflict
The traditional WIMP interfaces have the basic premise that the information can flow in and out of the system through a single channel or an event stream. This event stream can be in the form of input (mouse, keyboard etc) where the user enters data to the system and expects feedback in the form of output (voice, vibration, visual, etc) when the system responds. But the channel maintains its singularity and can process information one source at a time. For example, in today’s interaction, the computer ignores typed information (through a keyboard) when a mouse button is depressed.
This is very much different from a multimodal interaction where the system has multiple event streams and channels and can process information coming through various input modes acting in parallel, such as those described above. For example, in an IVR system a user can either type or speak to navigate through the menu.
References
User Agent Accessibility Guidelines working group (UAWG): Keyboard Interface use cases
W3C Multimodal Standard Brings Web to More People, More Ways
Next steps for W3C work on Multimodal Standards
The Future of Interaction is Multimodal
Beyond Mouse and Keyboard: Expanding Design Considerations for Information Visualization Interactions - naturalinfovis_infovis2012.pdf
Setting the scope for light-weight Web-based applications
Jan. 26, 1983: Spreadsheet as Easy as 1-2-3
Multi-modal design: Gesture, Touch and Mobile devices...next big thing? | Experience Dynamics