FogBugz compared to OnTime [closed] - bug-tracking

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Has anyone used both FogBugz and Axosoft's OnTime and care to offer an opinion? AxoSoft has a big feature comparison chart but I'm also interested in more subjective thoughts on things like ease of use and stability.

I've used both from a project lead perspective and a team member, to manage parallel projects and teams.
OnTime has a big feature matrix, but that doesn't translate into more value in an organization. For ease of use, OnTime fails. OnTime does NOT have a well designed interface, so for me, it does not stand out in the crowd. FogBugz, on the other hand, is pleasant to use, and I found myself "happier" to login every morning.
For me, the most important "feature" is: How well the tool presents and tracks issues and simplifies participation by team members. If it does this poorly, most of the other features fade. If it does this well, then some missing features can be forgiven.
On this one point, I find OnTime particularly inadequate and FogBugz particularly superior.
OnTime is loaded with different tabs in which information becomes lost or difficult to track. Teams and individuals often use different tabs for different purposes. I have to click around or I might miss something.
FogBugz tracks the issue with minimal clutter, like a discussion thread. When updates are made to the issue, all parties are notified via email, and no information is visually lost. At a glance, I always know what is going on with FogBugz.
OnTime 2009 also doesn't allow us to assign and track issues with multiple team members in parallel. You simply assign to a single person. No way to CC others. Big deficiency for team work.
Also, when performing a project review, we often take down a lot of fast issues as the customer speaks. With FogBugz I can use the quick mode to punch the issue in as fast as I can type descriptions, and return later to flesh it out. We cannot do this with OnTime, with its various required fields. Besides that, OnTime is just sluggish, taking 5-6 seconds just for the defect window to popup. I need to be able to enter issues during a meeting as fast as I can type it into Excel. The total time & clicks to create an issue in any tool is a key benchmark.
In short, with customers who use OnTime I see people constantly fallback to email for discussions, and I also see degraded communication (someone enters notes that others never see). I do not see this trend with FogBugz.
Feature matrixes look good on paper, but it is difficult enough to keep teams using a tool properly without the tool adding more difficulty. FogBugz makes it as simple as you want, while allowing you to drill down as needed.
OnTime, however, feels like a very detailed tracking database with quick WinForms app thrown on top.
The downside for me with FogBugz is price for upgrades. Yearly maintenance is steep at 50% of the original cost. I could not justify upgrades, in part because we are happy with FogBugz 6, but in part because I could not see what I was getting for my yearly maintenance fees. FogCreek wasn't very flexible on licensing discounts for us, after all they need to make a living, so we just decided to stick with v6 forever.
UPDATE 2014: A year or so after I wrote this, FogCreek sent me a free upgrade to v7 to fix a security bug. Just this year, they did the same thing again. They are the only company I've ever deal with to give me a free upgrade just to fix a bug, even without maintenance. A top-notch company with good people.
I'd still spend my money again on FogBugz without a second thought.

I actually encouraged the company I work for to begin tracking bugs with software (specifically FogBugz) and have been very pleased with FogBugz.
We blindly let our customers send bug requests into FogBugz through email, which has it's advantages and disadvantages. But we really haven't had any problems integrating FogBugz into a team that was totally unfamiliar with any bug tracking software. Overall, I'd rate FogBugz about a 9 on ease of use and stability.

I've used both extensively in production software development environments.
OnTime isn't bad - once you set it up to handle support tickets sent to an email, it has all the daily activities of software developers pretty well integrated.
I personally prefer FogBugz, because of the predictive estimation stuff that it includes. Being able to pick a due date, and then getting a likelihood of hitting that date based on your past performance is pretty awesome. I also think in general FogBugz is faster to use and organize your features/defects, and I like how it tracks time better.
One area where OnTime wins out is that it is much easier to make reports against OnTime. It stores everything in a SQL server so it is easy to access (granted if you get the non-hosted FogBugz maybe you could do this too). Also, it includes a report designer so you can get to your data. FogBugz has the weakness that while you can track and enter the time you spent per item for the purposes of its experienced-based scheduling, it doesn't give you an easy way as a manager to look at how much time a given employee spent on what things that week. Hopefully they will add that in the near future.

OnTime is more an ALM tool - it's trying to do everything.
FogBugz just deals with bugs (and feature requests) and at that it's excellent. I'm not sure about some of the newer extensions (like discussions), but for bugs it's really good.
There's lots of stuff that I'd add to it in terms of better reports, searching and the like, but I can definitely recommend FogBugz.

I've used OnTime for a few years now. It's actually a very easy tool to use and not just a bug tracking tool as was suggested. Where it falls down for me is the slowdown I've experienced as the volumes of Features / Defects/ Tasks have grown. Also, the web client tries too hard to be a parallel of the winform version and can be flaky as a result.

I have not tested the OnTime thing, but keep in mind that both FogBugz and OnTime have free versions as well, Axosoft for 1 user and FogBugz for 2 Users, although it's the hosted version. (Check my answer here to see how to sign up for the free FogBugz version)
So you can have some real first-hand experience on both systems.

Are you bug tracking or project planning?
FogBugz has better bug tracking features. FogBugz has better e-mail integration, state tracking and triggers. FogBugz is easier to drill down to an individual task without needing to apply a lot of filters.
For project planning, however, OnTime is the superior tool. The monte carlo estimation feature in FogBugz is cool--don't get me wrong--but honestly, getting the project entered into FogBugz so you can actually use the estimator is such a pain in the rear it can be downright frustrating. The scrum planning board in OnTime is really sexy. If you're used to using whiteboards or sticky notes, it's a breeze to enter and visualize.
OnTime provides better project overview information and custom reporting; this is better for managers.
FogBugz provides better drill-down information; this is better for implementers.
FogBugz has more features; this is better for tech-centric users.
OnTime is more graphical; this is better for non-engineers (project planners, artists and other people who often have to use scheduling tools).
Other factors: Some people have mentioned speed issues. I haven't noticed speed issues with either, but my only experiences have been local installs. OnTime is expensive for mid-sized teams; it's free for a single user and by the time you get to 10+ users the price is average, but for 3-6 man teams it's expensive especially if you want the pivot charts.
Quite honestly if you can afford it, it would not be stupid to consider both. Use OnTime for writing quotes, and FogBugz for tracking defects. They are radically different tools, and neither one excels in all areas but both are very good at select tasks.

I haven't worked with FogBugz, although I recently recommended our company goes with that.
OnTime is what the company decided to use and I personally don't like OnTime because of slowness and badly organized GUI. We opted to host it ourselves, but I don't think the machine is slow. The web app doesn't really look like a web app, more like it copies a windows app, just as Brian Scott said in his answer. And don't try using the windows app over Internet (over VPN). It's awfully slow. I suppose it could be due to our Internet connection latency.
Of course, my experience might be different than other people's, I could be having network issues. Someone else will have to confirm my claims of slowness. :)

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Agile scrum development tool? [closed]

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I recently started using "Jira" with the "GreenHopper" plugin. However, I don't feel like this is really doing what I want. I saw a cool feature in "Scrumworks pro" where you can run the app as a desktop application. My requirements therefore include things like:
Must have a really easy UI for managing scrum tasks
Must preferably have a desktop version that plugs into web version
It DOES NOT have to be free, just as long as it rocks!
It must NOT be a butchered app, but rather something specifically designed for Scrum, with a good development team.
It would also be an extra plus if it can integrate with Subversion somehow.
It would ne another extra plus if the sprints could send summaries to business owners of the work that was completed. I.e. Custom reports.
Any suggestions?
You could try IBM Rational Team Concert.
Easy UI: Very, especially the Eclipse version.
Desktop: You can use web, VS add-in, or eclipse version, by team member preference. Like I said, I recommend Eclipse (but haven't really seen the VS add-in)
Price: I believe it's free up to 10 developers, then it's IBM pricing schemas. But if that's not an issue...
(non-)Butchered app: It's IBM, so it's not a hack; and it's built on Jazz, so there's some extra developer community juice there. While it's supposed to be able to support both traditional and Agile, in my experience it's strongest for Scrum. Also, the configuration is highly customizable.
SVN integration: While there's no official bridge for this, I'm pretty sure it's been done before (e.g. by Clearvision), and can be done again if need be. Also, RTC comes with its own SCM system - I don't know if that would work well enough for you to replace SVN altogether, but it might.
Reports: Lots of (somewhat) customizable dashboards and charts. If there's a way for it to send automated reports, I haven't seen it yet.
All in all this sounds fairly close to what you were describing.
EDIT: By popular demand, some screenshots... From my actual Production environment. This is going to be long.
This is the Work Breakdown view of my current sprint. You can see that you have user stories, tasks, you can have defects, ARs, risks, impediments, what have you. It's actually customizable so you can add additional object types, each with its own properties and state machine.
Each of the properties you see can be changed from this view - so it's very easy to just add a new task under a story, set its estimate and a brief title, and you're good to go. All in all maybe 10 seconds for creating a new task. Ctrl+S commits your changes (takes ~1-2s).
In fact, I almost never have to leave this screen during a sprint. You can assign work to someone by making the item under their name, dragging an existing item under their name, or right click -> assign to Owner -> their name. You can change states and set time spent (or time left, the view is customizable) from this screen as well.
Occasionally you want to open an item for individual editing, which you can do by right clicking any object. That opens it in a new tab.
You can see that each individual team member as well as the team as a whole has a work done vs. expected. This is based on the release dates I've set for the sprints and total work estimated. If you're doing Scrum correctly, then by the second-third day you've already assigned each story the vast majority of its tasks. You get a handy meter for how many items you have unestimated. In fact, you can even filter out estimated items so you can focus on estimating the remaining ones (which again is two clicks).
P.S. My teammates don't necessarily have good task breakdowns / estimates here. But you get the idea.
The views you can have are many, and can be customized. So if you like a sticky board for your tasks, you have...
I don't actually use this a lot, but it's there. You can either view it by bunched groups of in progress, resolved etc. (like the screenshot) which is good for viewing several different object types; or you can do it by a specific object type's state machine (so for defects you could have Resolved, WNF, etc.)
Speaking of defects, this can integrate with ClearQuest (though it's got bad limitations if you're using multi-site solution for CQ). I don't know if I'd let RTC completely replace a different defect tracking system, but you conceivably could.
BTW the taskboard is intuitive in the sense that you can drag a task from one state to the other and it would update its state, assuming that the state transition is allowed by the state machine you determined.
More views are possible. Another filter I use during sprint planning is "Execution items", which leaves me only the stories and epics - no clutter under them.
Speaking of "under them", you could have other types of relationships than parent-child, such as "related" or "blocking". To do those though I think you have to go into the specific object. Parent-child can be done that way too, but usually you just drag objects on to one another.
I'll add here a couple of side panel screenshots and then I think I'm done... Because you should get the idea.
Team Artifacts panel lets you browse the relevant objects. Generally for Scrum management that would be Plans, which is where you keep all your work items. The "Work Items" item actually a bit misleading in that regard, it lets you do queries (e.g. "Open assigned to me"), which then appear in a bottom panel. I personally prefer using the plans.
You can also see builds, source control in there - for some teams they are indispensable, for others (like mine) they aren't really used.
Last screenshot...
Actually got three areas in the Team Dashboard (four with "Builds" not presented here, which I don't use). "My Open Items" can actually display any query, by any order. This one uses priority. Hovering on any of these displays the relevant items (takes 0.5-1s to think about it), with F2 enlarging the tooltip. Clicking any of these columns retrieves the items for the bottom panel.
Event Log is what you'd expect, stuff your team has been doing. Likewise easy to expand, clicking on an item opens the corresponding work item in a new tab.
Then there's Team Load, which compares estimated assigned items to each team member's expected hours left to work in the iteration, as well as total. This draws from individual setting of work hours and planned absences (alas, absences don't seem to support any half-day scheduling, only full days).
By complete happenstance, I have one team member with no load, one with load exactly matching their expected hours, and one who apparently chewed more than he could swallow. Of course, he just needs to update his tasks, though in this particular case he really is overworked. This dashboard lets a Scrum Master identify this sort of situation quickly and try to resolve it before it's too late.
(Don't ask why that didn't happen in this case).
Performance is also surprisingly good. I'm not sure what they did in their architecture, but it's a lot smoother than other enterprise solutions I've used. By far.
Maybe I should make it clear that I'm not in any way affiliated with IBM, Jazz, RTC etc. I just think the tool is pretty nifty. I'm not yet done exploring it, actually, but for Scrum it seems pretty darn good and I'm happy to spread the word :)
Is this what you are looking for?
P.S. There are a ton of Agile tools out there, you could continue to look around. But if JIRA wasn't good enough for you, then that probably disqualifies maybe 90% of what's out there which is worse (e.g. Rally).
Pivotal Tracker: http://www.pivotaltracker.com/
No desktop version, but it pretty much rocks. Has many integrations and third-party tools.
VersionOne is very good. Free up to 10 users, nice web interface and rich plugin base.
We have been using Assembla (www.assembla.com) for more than a year. It is not free and does not have a desktop version but it definitely rocks.
Some things I love:
The UI is clean and simple being suitable for developers and business owners alike.
Tasks and commits are integrated from SVN and Github so it makes it easy to track code changes relating to tasks.
The Cardwall/Kanban tool is excellent at quickly tracking tasks.
It is being developed constantly with new features like code review and enhanced cardwall features.
I can't compare it functionality to all of the solutions out there but I can tell you that it works fine for our team, is much better than what our partners use and clients are happy with it.
As a Scrum Practitioner for 8 years and user of most of the above mentioned tool, I recommend nothing better than a simple white board and concentrate on your process.
But if you have to use a tool especially for distributed teams...
I recommend ScrumDo.com Fast, Easy to use.
Nice Kanban board, integrated planning poker, intuitive story management with drag-drop, great for distributed teams.
Also we like the easy source code and time management integrations.
The prices scale very well with our growing teams.
Also the open source version helps out security minded team to install within the firewall.
Scrumdo is highly recommended. Agile Project management made so easy. I am hoping that all the teams in our company will use Scrumdo!
Try AgileWrap. I am sure you would like it.
It has clean, lean and easy-to-use interface for managing scurm user stories, tasks, defects, iterations, releases and backlogs.
Integrates with Subversion and Gits. Has API/Web services.
Free for 5 users team. Very affordable for larger size teams. You can use on-demand or on-premise whatever suits your needs. It does not come in desktop version though.
You can create custom reports as well as use many standard charts - velocity graph, burn-down, burn-up, story cumulative flow etc.
Definitely take a look at OnTime by Axosoft. It fits your wish list to a tee, including Subversion integration (if you're using Visual Studio), desktop and web clients, etc. I've used OnTime for the last five years and highly recommend it.
Best of all, their site has tons of information so I don't have to spend an evening creating screenshots to match Polymeron's answer.

Has Agile really worked for you as a Developer? [closed]

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I have met a lot of people for whom Agile has worked really well, and most of them tend to be managers and architects who plan and delegate the work. However I really haven't found much good developers convinced that Agile is working for them.
Of course you can say if Agile isn't working for you, you aren't doing it right. But whatever remixes of Agile are out there, is it working for you as a Developer? And why? Does anyone else think, within a traditional (or close to) team structure, Agile feels more like a form of micromanagement than self-management?
At my first job, we had daily scrums, wrote automated tests, had automated builds, pair programmed, etc. We had been in the agile groove for several years. And for our efforts, we were rewarded with software that I wouldn't touch with 20ft pole. The quality of our product was atrocious: I'd describe as the piecemeal hacking of 100 amateur developers.
What went wrong:
The company I worked at had a notorious reputation for hiring entry-level developers for the lowest pay ($25-27K/yr was the norm), and frequently we'd outsource work to the lowest offshore bidder. I've heard that agile just doesn't work on inexperienced developers, and I think it showed through the code and our turnover rate.
No documentation of any sort. No functional documentation, no technical documentation, no requirements, no bug tracking. No one ever wrote things down on persistent media: all requirements and bugs were communicated by email, word of mouth, and psychic mindreading.
Lousy testing: our automated tests were invaluable, but QA and UAT testing was a disaster. Since we didn't have any formal requirements documentation, QA users didn't know what new functionality they were testing, so all QA consisted more or less of haphazard end-to-end testing. User acceptance testing was performed in production: we installed the product on our customers servers and reported bugs as they occurred in production.
Crisis-driven development: bugs were handled by using the "OMG WE HAVE TO FIX THIS AND REDEPLOY PRONTO! NOW NOW NOW! NO TIME FOR TESTING JUST FIX IT!" management methodology.
Although we did everything right and really adhered to agile principles by the book, the methodology failed harder than anything else I've ever seen.
In contrast, the company that I work for now uses a waterfall-like methodology, produces a few hundred pages of documentation for each project, has few automated tests but a sizable QA team. Interestingly, the quality of our product is through the roof, and the work environment is orders of magnitude above and beyond the other company.
I know many people have had the opposite experience. As is usually the case, methodologies are not a golden hammer --- you can probably start a successful project no matter what methodology you choose. In my experience on successful and unsuccessful projects, I get the feeling that methodology doesn't matter as much as environment: comfortable, happy developers and sane project managers are all it takes make a project work.
At my company, we made a wholesale switch to agile practices about 4 years ago when a new VP came in. This VP had experienced success with Agile in the past, and decided it was what we needed.
As it turns out, he was right. I was a developer at the time (albeit a somewhat junior one), and I loved the practices. Pair programming really aided knowledge transfer and prevented the formation of knowledge silos. Unit testing, test driven development, and test emphasis in general made for more robust code that wasn't over-engineered. No Big Design Up Front meant that instead of spending 6 months writing requirements documents (by which time the market had passed us by), we were prototyping and delivering real value to customers in a timely matter. Working closely with a customer surrogate (in our case, a technical product manager) greatly shortened cycle feedback time, which helped us deliver what the customer actually wanted.
Our organization had quite a few talented developers, but we were very prone to cowboy coding. A few developers didn't like the new practices ("What do you mean, write tests? I'm a developer!"), but generally everyone loved the changes. Defect rates went down, customer satisfaction rates went up, and our office became very well regarded in our company.
About a year ago I became a manager, and I heavily use Agile practices, incorporating some Lean principles as well (value stream analysis, waste elimination, kanban). Tightening up release cycles has been an ongoing activity, and my team now releases as often as possible (with quality!) - often every two weeks. We have no field reported defects from my team in the past year, and the sales people and product management love the shorter release cycles.
As a developer, Agile really increased my confidence in working with various areas of code (I now feel nervous whenever I'm changing anything in a package that DOESN'T have 100% unit test coverage!), taught me to be a more well-rounded programmer (thinking of test implications, business impacts, etc.), and helped me write simple, self-documenting code. As a manager, Agile and kanban gives me predictability, lower lead times, lower defect rates, and an empowered team. This is not theory, or speculation, or hand waving - our team morale, defect rate, customer satisfaction, and balance sheet have proven that Agile can do wonderful things for an organization.
To comment on the Principles of the Agile Manifesto from my experience at a site that tried it.
Our highest priority is to satisfy the
customer through early and continuous
delivery of valuable software.
This was a double-edged sword for my last site -- valuable was taken to mean 100% perfect and bug-free.
Welcome changing requirements, even
late in development. Agile processes
harness change for the customer's
competitive advantage.
I still communicate with that site and just today, their rock-hard deadline date, they were given a requirement change. That was just the way things were there; it's almost as if they wanted failure.
Deliver working software frequently,
from a couple of weeks to a couple of
months, with a preference to the
shorter timescale.
The norm for many years was basically build and deploy daily, hourly, near real-time...
Business people and developers must
work together daily throughout the
project.
Some of the meetings/reviews with respect to this were hilarious. We were reprimanded for not working with the people (because they asked us not to because they were already working 9-10 hour days) and then for bothering them because they were busy.
Build projects around motivated
individuals. Give them the
environment and support they need,
and trust them to get the job done.
Ahh, here's our problem... We had top-of-the-line PCs but the business side wasn't supportive. The positive morale essentially got beaten out of you after about a year or so... This also negates your micromanagement concern (if implemented correctly).
The most efficient and effective
method of conveying information to
and within a development team is
face-to-face conversation.
This worked out well. Personally I prefer email because I hate taking notes.
Working software is the primary
measure of progress.
No doubt here.
Agile processes promote sustainable
development. The sponsors,
developers, and users should be able
to maintain a constant pace
indefinitely.
I agree with this 100%; the problem with the last business team I worked with was the expectation of 30-hour days, 10-day weeks, and 400-day years was not a pace I agreed with.
Continuous attention to technical
excellence and good design enhances
agility.
This is where some developer morale & education was needed.
Simplicity--the art of maximizing the
amount of work not done--is
essential.
I love this one and it's long been one of my goals. However, there was a "if you're not typing, you're not working" attitude that was tough to overcome.
The best architectures, requirements,
and designs emerge from
self-organizing teams.
I agree with this about 90% -- my only caveat is that they must be well-educated and well-informed teams.
At regular intervals, the team
reflects on how to become more
effective, then tunes and adjusts its
behavior accordingly.
We just failed here and it likely caused a lot of other problems we had. The business side was really good at saying "you need to do what we say needs to be done."
To wrap it up, if you're working somewhere where everyone is informed and on board with an Agile methodology, it should be a great place to work. When the goal is great software, momentum alone will carry any project.
Agile has worked awesomely for me as a Developer in my current environment. Here are some practices and why it seems to work so well:
Pair programming - This prevents anyone from feeling an individual ownership of the code. Pairs of developers tend to make better code than one person's "mad science" code that seems to happen if one person writes a bunch of code in isolation. This also allows for someone else to be brought in if someone goes away and that feature or enhancement has to get done while the person is away. Sometimes, one developer may think something will be great but if no one else can understand the code, it is useless to have unless it is perfect and futureproof which isn't likely.
Scrum - This creates both an accountability and communication so that each person knows what the other is doing. If someone wants to know how the sprint is going, just show up at the stand up. The standup is really simple in that it is just 3 questions: What did I do yesterday, what I am doing today and what would prevent me from getting that done?
Test-driven development - A variation on this is practiced where I work in that we generally try to have tests for most of the plumbing code we are writing to customize a CMS in the big project we are doing. This mindset can be tricky to get into though it does get easier as one practices it more.
YAGNI - The "You Aren't Gonna Need It" principle that can really be hard if you've been a perceptive programmer that generally puts in 101 things as a "Well, I might need this someday..." mindset. Another way to put this is a "Keep It Simple, Stupid" idea.
Sprints - The idea here just seems to prevent a sense of being overwhelmed as we are just working for 2 weeks on this or that, and don't look too far forward as it may well change.
Demos - Showing off what we have done, getting feedback on what is good and what isn't is crucial for getting things better and having a mindset that we want "continuous improvement" in the project and what is good enough today, won't be good enough tomorrow and get better at what we do.
IPM, Retrospectives - The ability to look back at what was done in retrospectives is useful for venting frustrations, celebrating things working well and finding ways to address pain points. IPM is where we determine our future for the next sprint in terms of what will be the goals and how long do we think various things will take by using a couple of different estimation tools, one for points on "epics" as we call them and the other for hours on an individual task or card which is part of a story that is something between the epic and a small piece of work.
Storywall and user stories - Now this low tech tool since it is just a few whiteboards, with dividers and post its provides some structure to things. We have lanes for each of the epics and various columns for states of work: Backlog, in development, on dev, or on test. There are also places for the task backlog, blocked cards, questions, standards and practices and a few other things that may be useful for managers to see to get an overview on the current status if they want more of a bigger picture than what they would get at standup.
Broken windows/technical debt/tasks - These are similar in some respects and are useful as a way to illustrate that quality matters,i.e. we don't want broken windows that can be easily explained in non-technical terms by either using a house in a neighbourhood or the New York Subway sytem as starting points. Technical debt being something that doesn't immediately add business value that is sometimes an important thing to use to prevent some problems as there may be problems with a particular architecture and so part of a sprint may be spent doing a re-arch that has to be communicated so that if there is a sprint with little to demo this is why.
I don't know if the idea of a "self-organizing" or "self-managing" team is part of Agile, but it has been a bit of a challenge for me to have enough faith and trust in my co-workers that things will work out fine. The professionals that are the rest of my team know what has to be done, are reasonable, honest people with integrity to just get the work done and not be jerks about getting things done. There aren't egos or bad attitudes which really do help foster building a team.
Agile hasn't worked for me, the main reason being that the systems I usually develop need a well-defined and well-thought architecture, which is hardly realisable by an agile approach. Agile approaches tend to write as little code as necessary to pass the applicable tests, and thus to grow the system organically. This can be nice from many perspectives, but it wreaks havoc from the architectural viewpoint.
From my personal experience, Agile methodology tends to create a huge technical debt in the long term, and while it might save you (as a business owner/management) a couple of bucks short term, in the long term it will come back and bite you. Whatever you do not fix now will eventually cost you many hours of work to fix at a much higher cost than it would have cost you to invest some more hours into the original problem.
Agile is always great from the point of view of beginners and management, but I do not know one experienced programmer who actually loves it. The whole point of Agile is to save development money for a company, it has nothing to do with actual product quality. In fact most of the methodology promotes bad code done quick over well-engineered code. The difference is that a few years down the road, you have to do the whole work all over again whereas the well-engineered code can last decades without corrections. Good programmers do not need Agile methodology most of the time.
We have a business logic library written 22 years ago here by a single team of 3 programmers using waterfall methodology, and that code hasn't needed a single correction since. Because it was tought properly, was well-engineered, and the three programmers took their time and were careful with their implementation. Agile methodology would instead ask of those three to do the strict minimum to make sure some ill-defined tests passed, and then wait until the next time you hit a wall to add some more duct tape code. It's a ridiculous way to work and goes against every engineer fiber in my body.
To this day I refuse to work in an Agile environment, because frankly I do not need it, and I do not need an employer who thinks I do need it.
Agile is not a methodology, it is a subset of methodologies that have a common set of goals, and more often then not those methodologies have wildly varying results based on team makeup, corporate culture, and implementation.
Off the top of my head, purely developer agile practices would include pair programming, TDD, user stories over specs, the assumption that all code is going to be refactored several times (although this is part of TDD) and code reviews more then anything. Things that impact us are daily standups, being engaged with users regularly and directly, postmortem introspections, and very tight development cycles.
I'm a developer and a manager at the same time, so I either have special insight or my opinion is totally invalid. ;)
I will say that Agile means a lot of things. It's actually a whole family of methodologies and guidelines at this point.
Exposing yourself to all these interesting ideas is really the thing. As a manager, it's very hard for me to decree that a whole team suddenly adopt a whole methodology, but if they see me constantly trying to improve every aspect of my game, I think they appreciate that. And hopefully, if they like what they see, they follow my example.
I've managed to slowly implement a bunch of things from Scrum without (hopefully) coming off as a tool. Burn down reports, stand-up meetings, and story cards on the whiteboard have really made us better at shipping software. For instance, on any project tasks are constantly being done ahead of schedule or late. In a really big project, it can become very difficult to tell what that's doing to your ship date. With burn down reports, I can tell what a slip does to our ship date, and if we need to just start cutting features in order to meet a deadline.
That's more of a management thing, but the other devs here care about it because it might mean they get to keep their jobs or avoid a death march. :)
But it's not just management stuff. There's tons in Agile about best practices for source control, unit testing, etc. Just good solid best practices. As an industry, we are pretty terrible about mentoring, so it's good that this information is out there.
From the developers perspective I think it works well. In my point of view agile techniques have in common that the loop between defining the task, working on the task and getting feedback from that task is a very small one as compared to a non-agile approaches.
Take TDD as an example: Code the test, red bar, code the functionality, green bar, refactor, red bar, fix, green bar.
From the managers perspective this faster feedback loop is also true: Daily meeting one, status green, daily meeting two, status yellow, countermeasures / re-assign ressources, daily meeting three, status green.
Immediate feedback and knowing where you are heading gives a feeling of safety.
In the so called 'traditional team', Agile development would increase the visibility of individual developers to management. That would probably allow managers and architects to plan their work better. Ofcourse that could be interpreted as micromanagement.
But from an organizational perspective, if it produces results, who cares.
I guess what makes an "agile" project agile, is the methodology: "Design for today not for tomorrow".
For any not life-critical software systems this is a way to keep programmers coding in stead of discussing ages about design. Please note that design is not scrapped, it is just done in smaller and therefore more overseeable chunks.
All other techniques that are associated with agile, like pair programming, are more borrowed ideas that could also be used effectively in any other methodology.
Now, does this technique 'work'? Yes! If applied correctly, the technique promotes that the software product will be ready for shipping at any time to react to competition.
On the other hand, because programmers are feeling they are coding more, they are generally happier. And they are less irritated by writing specs because this phase is inherently always small.
But again, if you know exactly what your product is going to be and especially if it is life-critical like the space shuttle, agile development is not what you want.
Nearly every management is aware of "Agile" by now: It's this thing, you know? Alone by your initial question I would assume that something is really going wrong. I really recommend you reading a book like Practices of an Agile Developer (as the title suggests - it's about what's in for you).
Some managers read a book and then will know what agile is all about. They are telling you what to do and everything is fine, isn't it?
If you look around, there are a lot of developers (in Agile companies) who can't tell you within a second what the purpose of a stand-up is - and that's an issue. If you (and maybe even nobody else) don't know the why the StandUp won't make things better.
Take a look at time tracking (and time estimation) - there are some managers who think it's about measuring how much work you do: Hey, you have a 40h contract but the time tracking tool says that you have only be working for 38h this week! That's not how it was meant to be used.
The only thing you can do about that: you need to learn what agile methods are out there. Mediocre managers will pick the ones they find interesting. Good managers will grasp the why and not only choose the methods for their direct benefit - but also those which will make the team more happy / efficient / teamish (Team vs Workgroup).
P.S. Something you really need to take care of: In agile there is no place for slackers. Everybody has to do stuff on their own. You have to put personal interest into the success of the product. If you don't do things on your own, somebody will tell you what to do (and then there's micromanagement).
Has Agile really worked? "Yes."
Before there was "Agile Programming" there were equivalent largely unrecognized methodologies. I thought these were called incremental prototyping but apparently this has been split into that and evolutionary prototyping.
I suspect that many or most of the successful systems were so constructed. Just because the methodology grew a new name doesn't mean that it suddenly appeared.
It's just that Waterfall and other broken management techniques that got all the press.
I say Agile works.
I say it's the only thing that ever worked.

Predictive vs Reactive software design [closed]

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I know that for me I first got started following the waterfall method of project management and along with that I went with the predictive approach to software design. In this I mean we had huge packets of documentation, UML, database schemas, data dictionaries, workflows, activity diagrams, etc.
Having worked in software for over 10 years now I find it to be much more realistic to approach software design from a Reactive approach. I frequently follow a scrum approach to project management and with that very little heavy documentation is ever generated. We have very little workflow specification (though they still have there use). This is a much more dynamic approach to software creation. Of course along with it comes frequent refactoring as time goes on as we find out new features over time that had we planned for up front would have changed things dramatically.
The big difference for us is that the first approach takes longer, seems to fail more frequently in a software construction world, and isn't nearly as flexible. The second approach provides more flexibility, makes us aware of failure faster (so we can course correct faster), and provides some form of functionality at the end of every iteration.
Knowing both sides from experience, I still find many people that LOVE the waterfall approach over the agile approach for software development. I don't get it.
question: Why would someone use waterfall over some form of agile with all of the research backing agile? What are strong arguments for using waterfall over agile?
When I started programming (with COBOL no less), waterfall was the "new" approach. Today, I'd tell you that I use a waterfallish agile methodology. For larger systems, I find a waterfall type start works best. Not creating huge documents (that's a waste of time IMO) but rather to take some steps like creating a UI prototype and/or use cases to get our heads around the business problem at hand. Once we are comfortable we have the problem scoped and we have a solid understanding, we move into an agile development mode.
To answer your question though, I think the big reason waterfall sticks around is many people don't like change. It's scary to change and moving from waterfall to agile is a big change.
I think that part of the reason why people still often cling to waterfall is that it gives the illusion of control. In a waterfall, you can do enough up front work to put together a beautiful schedule that nicely addresses every contingency that you can think of, and then give a detailed roadmap for the future to anyone on the business side who asks when feature X will be available.
The problem is that you can almost never follow that plan to the letter, and you are almost always late/dropping features. However from the upfront, it looks very controlled and manageable.
I'm a big Agile fan, but what I've always struggled with is the long range roadmap/forecasting that is often asked for by the sales and marketing folks. I think that the waterfall's illusion of certainty is very comforting to managers and business folks.
My boss tells me to.
I suspect many people have no choice and old bosses don't learn new tricks.
Not taking sides, but pretty much any research would be unscientific at best.
You say (emphasis is mine)
question: Why would someone use waterfall over some form of agile with all of the research backing agile? What are strong arguments for using waterfall over agile?
but don't link to any studies.
It's one of those things that are known to be extremely difficult to actually test. You can't have two identical teams work on the same project at the same time, because there's no such thing as two identical teams. You can't have the same team complete the same task twice in a row using two different methodologies without the first pass tainting the second. I've never heard of anyone designing an experimental (or even statistical) study that can convincingly argue for any software development methodology. I'd be interested to see one though, if you have a link.
Short of real evidence, it boils down to personal preference. What are the strong arguments for chocolate over vanilla?
I'll play devil's advocate and state that agile is flawed is nearly as many ways as the waterfall method is. I'm not one of those that love the waterfall method, but I don't love agile either.
My experience with agile hasn't been very positive. To be fair, I used it in a corporate environment, which paid lip service to "agile" while still expecting our manager to produce long term milestones and deliverables upfront.
However, I found that agile (scrum in particular) methodologies often disguise major problems with design. While waterfall gives managers the illusion of control, agile seems to do the same for development teams. I've seen teams where bringing up any issue that aren't in the current sprint/iteraton is frowned upon, with the expectation that it'll be handled "in time". It only requires a few major design decisions to be ignored for the project to go belly up in future, while current iterations go smoothly and project looks to be on track.
You can argue that the team's at fault for not understanding the spirit of agile, but I'd like to see better methodologies that incorporate the best parts of agile.
One of the premises of (at least) XP is that change is cheap. The waterfall model was built on the principles that change, any change, is costly. The assumption in the waterfall model is that once software has been written, changing it is more expensive than investing the time up front to come to a "complete" understanding of the problem.
Experience seems to indicate that it is very hard to come to a complete understanding of the problem and that if some precautions are taken (e.g. Unit Testing) change can become a lot cheaper. Therefore if you encounter a problem where some of the agile premises don't hold true other approaches might become feasible again. In between Waterfall and Agile there is at least Spiral development which is - sort of - what we practice.
You need to be preditive enough to deliver the goods. You need to be reactive enough to deal with the issues.
I was once stuck with six months to complete a project estimated to take a year, and based on past experience experience would take two. So I spent three months researching methodolgies. We finished on time (in three months), using the appropriate parts of a waterfall process.
A few points that made the methodoly work:
- Create an use standards, update them when needed.
- Build libraries: Do it once, do it well, fix it without breaking existing code.
- Do just enough documentation.
- Version control everything you can.
- Break things down; a method should either manage work or do work.
- Increase cohesion, decrease coupling, reuse.
- Buy or build the tools you need.
- Track your issues and progress.
Another project I was breifly involved was a six month project. I didn't get involved until a year and a half after it started. The development lead had been hired at an extreme markup as he was leaving a career with a pension plan. At the start of the project he asked the project manager, "Do you want me to do it right or be reactive?" Can you guess the answer? The week I was involved same feature was implemented on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Guess what happened Tuesday and Thursday?
The strength in Agile is its emphasis on just enough, just in time. The strength in the waterfall methodoly is that it covers all the things you need to think about. I've yet to work on a project that did or should have done all the steps. I have worked on many projects that did steps which should have been done on a corporate basis.
The title says it all. (Actually: proactive vs reactive). Why chose the reactive way and give up control unless you don't have to? Waterfall is not the only alternative, you can have any kind of development process what you refine when you like. Control is the key.
It's a spectrum btw, the waterfall on one end and the totally reactive, zero documentation methods on the other end. If you work in the consultant industry for powerful (and usually indecisive) clients, you have to resort to reactive methods. If you develop shrinkwrap software you can plan ahead and manage knowledge. Some projects also require tons of specifications and rules, where the code and fix approach just don't cut it. For me software engineering is primarily about knowledge management and design, coding comes second.
P.s. there is no such a thing as agile and fixed price. Not in the classical way they usually sell the method. See http://martinfowler.com/bliki/FixedPrice.html
If you exactly know the requirements that never chagen, if you know how long each step will take and if you know all the resources are avaliable at the time needed you can do waterfall and it will work. But in deed these kind of projects are quite rare and I think I will never be part of it.
When designing systems to be used by end users, agile often works well because the requirements are likely to be incorrect and a large part of the process is getting feedback from users in the form of a usable version.
However, when creating software that interfaces with other software often the requirements can be worked out in very clearly. In this case it is often more productive to ensure that you have a very clear and accurate specification, unit tests In this model you can also generate fairly good work estimates and there would be a great deal more cost to use the agile model.
retroactive behaviour
If you have a team of a few dozen people that have over the course of a decade, refined the waterfall strategy to the point that it works well for them, who are you to come in and say, "You're doing it wrong..."? Really, if it is working for them, why change things? Yes this is merely flipping the question around but I think it may be a valid point.
In my team we've found that with maintenance projects (which is the bulk of what we do) where we're tweaking or replacing like with like there isn't always as much need for user input beyond perhaps some UI prototypes.
In that case, particularly given that there are commercial deals involved the waterfall approach at a macro level can fit well. Even then we still like incremental / agile approaches at the implementation level.
It is worth noting that most of our clients are large lumbering organisations in love with their paperwork, so that adds even more impetus for us to at least appear traditional to them.
The documentation generated during the waterfall process allows for a lot of CYA. You can point fingers when a project goes off the rails. Very few executives are going to be OK with "oh well, I guess that project got away from us! Well, at least we found out early, no harm no foul!"
Also, design docs can automatically generate test plans, which is useful for QA.
It's pretty common when bidding for a contract that one of the iron-clad conditions is that you follow their "process" which on inspection is waterfall.

Best Software Engineering Practice for Student Project Team? [closed]

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I've been reading about the various forms and aspects of agile development, but all focused on the corporate environment. I am on a student project team at my university, and I'd like to see if some agile concepts could work in an environment other than 'everyone works full/part time'.
We do have our own project server, with Subversion for version control, and Sharepoint for documents, wiki, and action items.
Some challenges
It's hard enough to arrange a weekly meeting, daily standups are infeasable
We're our own customers for the most part (we're part of a competition, but we can't work closely with the organizers)
Not just programmers, also mechanical/electrical team members
Sharepoint's action items don't have the best interface. Are there any extensions available? Would it make sense to switch to something else (like Trac) at the expense of a unified interface for everything non-svn?
Procrastination. As students, the most natural thing to do is wait to the last minute
We have our own space, but often, it's easier to do work elsewhere, and there's no way to predict if anyone else will be there except by making explicit arrangements
Other classes (still have to pass them, so total commitment to the team is limited)
Perhaps our team could benefit from more than just agile techniques, so all suggestions are welcome.
EDIT Thanks for all the great answers. I'm going to start asking my teammates how they feel about some of these ideas, and see what they buy into. Should I link them to this question? You can edit your answer or just leave a comment to answer this secondary question.
I wouldn't try to force a full, corporate environment style Agile programming workflow onto your team, but I do think that some level of Agile methodology could be valuable. I actually think that some of your "challenges" would be mitigated somewhat by some of the Agile ideas, but would require some level of commitment from every one on the team.
For example - the daily standups/weekly meetings issue.
This doesn't have to be a large thing (and, especially in a student project case, I'd say making it smaller is better). Having a Trac site (which I'd recommend over sharepoint if you're using SVN already) with a single place (like a wiki page) to just track the standup info in one sentence can still be valuable, without taking more than 1-2 minutes per day / person.
If somebody misses a day or two here and there, it's not a big deal, but if the team agrees to doing this, it can actually help the procrastination issue (forcing people to just say "I did nothing. I'm doing nothing" has a benefit - it keeps people at least thinking about your project, which tends to reduce the amount of procrastination), as well as having people work in different locations but still stay in communication.
This is also easy enough for non-programmers to do, and can help keep the mechanical and electrical teams working together, and everybody moving forward.
That being said, I'd make sure to keep it short and sweet - Try to keep the burden to a minimum, but I still think there's value in some of the Agile programming ideas, even in a student setting.
If you ask me you're adding too much overhead to your student project. Methodologies are generally only used in corporate environments because of the need to monitor and control human resources (control isn't the right word - but I needed one stronger than co-ordinate). In a group of students, there's absolutely no need to bother with anything like that. Adhering to a methodology will only slow you down.
You have identified your challenges. Make your peers aware of them and talk about how best to deal with them. Use methodologies as a source of ideas, but don't bend to one in your situation.
You can do a weekly or bi-weekly meeting that simulate a daily. Start your meeting with the three questions:
What did you accomplish since thelast time we met?
What do you plan to do until next time?
Is there anything blocking your progress?
Note that these can also be answered by your non-programmer teammate. In the company I work for, we have multidisciplinary team using scrum (programmer and artists) and it's working well.
If you don't want to do your meeting standing up, at least don't go for comfortable sofas. This should make your meeting shorter by making people more attentive.
You should use the method to your advantage and minimize procrastination by making interim milestones. Build your task list (excel, any other spreadsheet software is fine). Split them in milestone. When comes the time to review, sit with your team and look at your product like a client do, maybe involve your teacher.
Poker planning is fun, and a nice way to clarify your what you have to do, and how you plan on doing it. Breaking down objectives into tasks will involve people from all disciplines. But only people that can do the task should evaluate it.
IMO, SharePoint and agile don't really mix well. Pick something that's more "throw-it-up-there". I'd go with something like Trac, which has great Subversion integration.
It sounds like communication and procrastination is going to be your biggest challenge. If you don't give yourself enough time to do the work and do good testing, you're not going to have a good result. This is only logical, and doesn't really have anything to do with whether you're agile or not.
In your situation, not all of the Principles behind the Agile Manifesto will be easy to apply You might be able to apply some ideas that come from the principles, specifically:
short iterations at the end of which you always have a "working" project, even if some desired features have not been implemented yet.
maximize the amount of work not done - rather than designing a grand framework that you hope will cover all the needs of the project, start small and do just what is needed as you go.
If you have milestones during your project, consider having a meeting (called a retrospective) after each milestone just to look back and see how your process worked / didn't work and how you might improve it.
On the software parts, you could consider TDD and pair programming
I would say go with SCRUM. Skip the daily meetings and instead make a private forum and require each member to check it at least once a day. Try to make your sprint retrospective and planning meetings an "in-person" event over drinks or coffee.
The whole who is doing (and has done) aspect of SCRUM is amazing once everyone gets used to doing it. The 'sprint release' concept also helps team members from 'going dark' for too long and keeps the project based in reality ("What can we do in two weeks" vs. "I have this idea I am going to start and who knows when I can finish it").
Also, if your team has more then 8 people, skip SCRUM =)
Lastly, if you have the talent and someone on your team has the means (and desire), consider TFS workgroup (I think it comes free with academic MSDNs). If you don't have someone on your team who REALLY wants to take on that burden, skip it tho.
When I was in college, I took several courses that encouraged the adoption and use of Agile practices. They were mostly a mess and although I learned a lot of from them they generally weren't the things the professor was expecting us to learn. I do agile development professionally now and love it, but here are the things I wish that I had known when I was doing agile in school:
Getting things squared with your schedule is really, really hard, which makes daily standups more important, not less. If you can't sit in the same room (very hard) then use Twitter or Yammer or just email.
A lot of Agile's benefit is simply in getting you into a rhythm. That doesn't just mean weekly meetings; it means set goals, commitment to points, and weekly deliverables. This is tough to pull off in an academic context but should go a way towards helping you with your procrastination problem.
It's tough to get used to pairing; everyone has their own computer and style of development. Try to hook a second keyboard/monitor/mouse up to your existing laptops if possible, or use screen sharing software, and standardize on an IDE. Pairing also really, really helps with procrastination but trying to do it without good tools is an awful lot of trouble.
Don't skimp on unit testing, even if you think of it as a silly, academic, one-off project. I've done projects before that I figured were too small to bother with testing and it's never failed to come back and bite me on the ass.
Sharepoint might be a bit heavyweight. Believe it or not, we still do an awful lot of things on whiteboards or with index cards. You may be your own customer but that doesn't mean you can't have stories (discrete, estimable features, basically) and goals. It's helpful to be able to visualize it: these features are planned, these are in development, these are ready for testing. If you'd like software recommendations I can give you those but I do recommend simple paper for a lot of the planning process.

Reasons not to build your own bug tracking system [closed]

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Several times now I've been faced with plans from a team that wants to build their own bug tracking system - Not as a product, but as an internal tool.
The arguments I've heard in favous are usually along the lines of :
Wanting to 'eat our own dog food' in terms of some internally built web framework
Needing some highly specialised report, or the ability to tweak some feature in some allegedly unique way
Believing that it isn't difficult to build a bug tracking system
What arguments might you use to support buying an existing bug tracking system? In particular, what features sound easy but turn out hard to implement, or are difficult and important but often overlooked?
First, look at these Ohloh metrics:
Trac: 44 KLoC, 10 Person Years, $577,003
Bugzilla: 54 KLoC, 13 Person Years, $714,437
Redmine: 171 KLoC, 44 Person Years, $2,400,723
Mantis: 182 KLoC, 47 Person Years, $2,562,978
What do we learn from these numbers? We learn that building Yet Another Bug Tracker is a great way to waste resources!
So here are my reasons to build your own internal bug tracking system:
You need to neutralize all the bozocoders for a decade or two.
You need to flush some money to avoid budget reduction next year.
Otherwise don't.
I would want to turn the question around. WHY on earth would you want to build your own?
If you need some extra fields, go with an existing package that can be modified.
Special report? Tap into the database and make it.
Believing that it isn't difficult? Try then. Spec it up, and see the list of features and hours grow. Then after the list is complete, try to find an existing package that can be modified before you implement your own.
In short, don't reinvent the wheel when another one just needs some tweaking to fit.
Programmers like to build their own ticket system because, having seen and used dozens of them, they know everything about it. That way they can stay in the comfort zone.
It's like checking out a new restaurant: it might be rewarding, but it carries a risk. Better to order pizza again.
There's also a great fact of decision making buried in there: there are always two reasons to do something: a good one and the right one. We make a decision ("Build our own"), then justify it ("we need full control"). Most people aren't even aware of their true motivation.
To change their minds, you have to attack the real reason, not the justification.
Not Invented Here syndrome!
Build your own bug tracker? Why not build your own mail client, project management tool, etc.
As Omer van Kloeten says elsewhere, pay now or pay later.
There is a third option, neither buy nor build. There are piles of good free ones out there.
For example:
Bugzilla
Trac
Rolling your own bug tracker for any use other than learning is not a good use of time.
Other links:
Three free bug-tracking tools
Comparison of issue tracking systems
I would just say it's a matter of money - buying a finished product you know is good for you (and sometimes not even buying if it's free) is better than having to go and develop one on your own. It's a simple game of pay now vs. pay later.
First, against the arguments in favor of building your own:
Wanting to 'eat our own dog food' in terms of some internally built web framework
That of course raises the question why build your own web framework. Just like there are many worthy free bug trackers out there, there are many worthy frameworks too. I wonder whether your developers have their priorities straight? Who's doing the work that makes your company actual money?
OK, if they must build a framework, let it evolve organically from the process of building the actual software your business uses to make money.
Needing some highly specialised report, or the ability to tweak some feature in some allegedly unique way
As others have said, grab one of the many fine open source trackers and tweak it.
Believing that it isn't difficult to build a bug tracking system
Well, I wrote the first version of my BugTracker.NET in just a couple of weeks, starting with no prior C# knowledge. But now, 6 years and a couple thousand hours later, there's still a big list of undone feature requests, so it all depends on what you want a bug tracking system to do. How much email integration, source control integration, permissions, workflow, time tracking, schedule estimation, etc. A bug tracker can be a major, major application.
What arguments might you use to support buying an existing bug tracking system?
Don't need to buy.Too many good open source ones: Trac, Mantis_Bug_Tracker, my own BugTracker.NET, to name a few.
In particular, what features sound easy but turn out hard to implement, or are difficult and important but often overlooked?
If you are creating it just for yourselves, then you can take a lot of shortcuts, because you can hard-wire things. If you are building it for lots of different users, in lots of different scenarios, then it's the support for configurability that is hard. Configurable workflow, custom fields, and permissions.
I think two features that a good bug tracker must have, that both FogBugz and BugTracker.NET have, are 1) integration of both incoming and outgoing email, so that the entire conversation about a bug lives with the bug and not in a separate email thread, and 2) a utility for turning a screenshot into a bug post with a just a couple of clicks.
The most basic argument for me would be the time loss. I doubt it could be completed in less than a month or two. Why spend the time when there are soooo many good bug tracking systems available? Give me an example of a feature that you have to tweak and is not readily available.
I think a good bug tracking system has to reflect your development process. A very custom development process is inherently bad for a company/team. Most agile practices favor Scrum or these kinds of things, and most bug tracking systems are in line with such suggestions and methods. Don't get too bureaucratic about this.
A bug tracking system can be a great project to start junior developers on. It's a fairly simple system that you can use to train them in your coding conventions and so forth. Getting junior developers to build such a system is relatively cheap and they can make their mistakes on something a customer will not see.
If it's junk you can just throw it away but you can give them a feeling of there work already being important to the company if it is used. You can't put a cost on a junior developer being able to experience the full life cycle and all the opportunities for knowledge transfer that such a project will bring.
We have done this here. We wrote our first one over 10 years ago. We then upgraded it to use web services, more as a way to learn the technology. The main reason we did this originally was that we wanted a bug tracking system that also produced version history reports and a few other features that we could not find in commercial products.
We are now looking at bug tracking systems again and are seriously considering migrating to Mantis and using Mantis Connect to add additional custom features of our own. The amount of effort in rolling our own system is just too great.
I guess we should also be looking at FogBugz :-)
Most importantly, where will you submit the bugs for your bug tracker before it's finished?
But seriously. The tools already exist, there's no need to reinvent the wheel. Modifying tracking tools to add certain specific features is one thing (I've modified Trac before)... rewriting one is just silly.
The most important thing you can point out is that if all they want to do is add a couple of specialized reports, it doesn't require a ground-up solution. And besides, the LAST place "your homebrew solution" matters is for internal tools. Who cares what you're using internally if it's getting the job done as you need it?
Being a programmer working on an already critical (or least, important) task, should not let yourself deviate by trying to develop something that is already available in the market (open source or commercial).
You will now try to create a bug tracking system to keep track of the bug tracking system that you use to track bugs in your core development.
First:
1. Choose the platform your bug system would run on (Java, PHP, Windows, Linux etc.)
2. Try finding open source tools that are available (by open source, I mean both commercial and free tools) on the platform you chose
3. Spend minimum time to try to customize to your need. If possible, don't waste time in customising at all
For an enterprise development team, we started using JIRA. We wanted some extra reports, SSO login, etc. JIRA was capable of it, and we could extend it using the already available plugin. Since the code was given part of paid-support, we only spent minimal time on writing the custom plugin for login.
Building on what other people have said, rather than just download a free / open source one. How about download it, then modify it entirely for your own needs? I know I've been required to do that in the past. I took an installation of Bugzilla and then modified it to support regression testing and test reporting (this was many years ago).
Don't reinvent the wheel unless you're convinced you can build a rounder wheel.
I'd say one of the biggest stumbling blocks would be agonising over the data model / workflow. I predict this will take a long time and involve many arguments about what should happen to a bug under certain circumstances, what really constitutes a bug, etc. Rather than spend months arguing to-and-fro, if you were to just roll out a pre-built system, most people will learn how to use it and make the best of it, no matter what decisions are already fixed. Choose something open-source, and you can always tweak it later if need be - that will be much quicker than rolling your own from scratch.
At this point, without a large new direction in bug tracking/ticketing, it would simply be re-inventing the wheel. Which seems to be what everyone else thinks, generally.
Your discussions will start with what consitutes a bug and evolve into what workflow to apply and end up with a massive argument about how to manage software engineering projects. Do you really want that? :-) Nah, thought not - go and buy one!
Most developers think that they have some unique powers that no one else has and therefore they can create a system that is unique in some way.
99% of them are wrong.
What are the chances that your company has employees in the 1%?
I have been on both sides of this debate so let me be a little two faced here.
When I was younger, I pushed to build our own bug tracking system. I just highlighted all of the things that the off the shelf stuff couldn't do, and I got management to go for it. Who did they pick to lead the team? Me! It was going to be my first chance to be a team lead and have a voice in everything from design to tools to personnel. I was thrilled. So my recommendation would be to check to the motivations of the people pushing this project.
Now that I'm older and faced with the same question again, I just decided to go with FogBugz. It does 99% of what we need and the costs are basically 0. Plus, Joel will send you personal emails making you feel special. And in the end, isn't that the problem, your developers think this will make them special?
Every software developer wants to build their own bug tracking system. It's because we can obviously improve on what's already out there since we are domain experts.
It's almost certainly not worth the cost (in terms of developer hours). Just buy JIRA.
If you need extra reports for your bug tracking system, you can add these, even if you have to do it by accessing the underlying database directly.
The quesion is what is your company paying you to do? Is it to write software that only you will use? Obviously not. So the only way you can justify the time and expense to build a bug tracking system is if it costs less than the costs associated with using even a free bug tracking system.
There well may be cases where this makes sense. Do you need to integrate with an existing system? (Time tracking, estimation, requirements, QA, automated testing)? Do you have some unique requirements in your organization related to say SOX Compliance that requires specific data elements that would be difficult to capture?
Are you in an extremely beauracratic environment that leads to significant "down-time" between projects?
If the answer is yes to these types of questions - then by all means the "buy" vs build arguement would say build.
If "Needing some highly specialised report, or the ability to tweak some feature in some allegedly unique way", the best and cheapest way to do that is to talk to the developers of existing bug tracking systems. Pay them to put that feature in their application, make it available to the world. Instead of reinventing the wheel, just pay the wheel manufacturers to put in spokes shaped like springs.
Otherwise, if trying to showcase a framework, its all good. Just make sure to put in the relevant disclaimers.
To the people who believe bug tracking system are not difficult to build, follow the waterfall SDLC strictly. Get all the requirements down up front. That will surely help them understand the complexity. These are typically the same people who say that a search engine isn't that difficult to build. Just a text box, a "search" button and a "i'm feeling lucky" button, and the "i'm feeling lucky" button can be done in phase 2.
Use some open source software as is.
For sure there are bugs, and you will need what is not yet there or is pending a bug fix. It happens all of the time. :)
If you extend/customize an open source version then you must maintain it. Now the application that is suppose to help you with testing money making applications will become a burden to support.
I think the reason people write their own bug tracking systems (in my experience) are,
They don't want to pay for a system they see as being relatively easy to build.
Programmer ego
General dissatisfaction with the experience and solution delivered by existing systems.
They sell it as a product :)
To me, the biggest reason why most bug trackers failed was that they did not deliver an optimum user experience and it can be very painful working with a system that you use a LOT, when it is not optimised for usability.
I think the other reason is the same as why almost every one of us (programmers) have built their own custom CMS or CMS framework at sometime (guilty as charged). Just because you can!
I agree with all the reasons NOT to. We tried for some time to use what's out there, and wound up writing our own anyway. Why? Mainly because most of them are too cumbersome to engage anyone but the technical people. We even tried basecamp (which, of course, isn't designed for this and failed in that regard).
We also came up with some unique functionality that worked great with our clients: a "report a bug" button that we scripted into code with one line of javascript. It allows our clients to open a small window, jot info in quickly and submit to the database.
But, it certainly took many hours to code; became a BIG pet project; lots of weekend time.
If you want to check it out: http://www.archerfishonline.com
Would love some feedback.
We've done this... a few times. The only reason we built our own is because it was five years ago and there weren't very many good alternatives. but now there are tons of alternatives. The main thing we learned in building our own tool is that you will spend a lot of time working on it. And that is time you could be billing for your time. It makes a lot more sense, as a small business, to pay the monthly fee which you can easily recoup with one or two billable hours, than to spend all that time rolling your own. Sure, you'll have to make some concessions, but you'll be far better off in the long run.
As for us, we decided to make our application available for other developers. Check it out at http://www.myintervals.com
Because Trac exists.
And because you'll have to train new staff on your bespoke software when they'll likely have experience in other systems which you can build on rather than throw away.
Because it's not billable time or even very useful unless you are going to sell it.
There are perfectly good bug tracking systems available, for example, FogBugz.
I worked in a startup for several years where we started with GNATS, an open source tool, and essentially built our own elaborate bug tracking system on top of it. The argument was that we would avoid spending a lot of money on a commercial system, and we would get a bug tracking system exactly fitted to our needs.
Of course, it turned out to be much harder than expected and was a big distraction for the developers - who also had to maintain the bug tracking system in addition to our code. This was one of the contributing factors to the demise of our company.
Don't write your own software just so you can "eat your own dog food". You're just creating more work, when you could probably purchase software that does the same thing (and better) for less time and money spent.
Tell them, that's great, the company could do with saving some money for a while and will be happy to contribute the development tools whilst you work on this unpaid sabbatical. Anyone who wishes to take their annual leave instead to work on the project is free to do so.

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