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I'm currently taking a year off between high school and college. I'm working as a junior IT technician, so I'm getting plenty of experience on the hardware side of things. I want to use this year off to also get started on some programming; I have experience in Visual basic from high school courses, but want to further my learning before going to school. Now, obviously I will not be able to become overly proficient in all of these, but these are the languages that I plan on learning over the course of the next few years:
PHP
Ruby (on Rails)
Python
(Objective) C__ (I'll research my college program and see what C they use, and learn that)
Java
Lisp
Will being proficient in these languages give me a good base to work from? I tried to pick a selection of languages that seem to offer good employability, ability to develop on a number of platforms (desktop, web, mobile), and ones that are currently popular and sought-after.
Am I missing anything? Does anyone see anything important that I've missed, things I've picked that are a waste of time, or otherwise?
Thanks a lot guys.
I don't know if you've read the Pragmatic Programmer (a great read) But there's a section in there on expanding your knowledge portfolio, and they suggest learning one language a year, and I must confess I agree with them.
So I would work out what you want to write, and then pick the language that fulfills the requirements you want. And as you're going to college, I would also consider what language that the course you're attending is going to be teaching. I'd most certainly place my effort in to learning that language.
I'd also recommend (assuming they're going to let you use linux) learning a scripting language, such as BASH, and learn to create make or build files in your chosen environment, it's a heck of a lot easier than remembering compiler options.
Python is good to start with and then do Java. It would be enough for a starter on my opinion.
If you thought of learing php instead then learn mysql too. And more over you have overall missed the database. :(
Atleast learn my sql or ms sql of your choice.
I am working on a new language, targeted for web development, embeding into applications, distributed applications, high-reliability software (but this is for distant future).
Also, it's target to reduce development expenses in long term - more time to write safer code and less support later. And finally, it enforces many things that real teams have to enforce - like one crossplatform IDE, one codestyle, one web framework.
In short, the key syntax/language features are:
Open source, non-restrictive licensing. Surely crossplatform.
Tastes like C++ but simpler, Pythonic syntax with strict & static type checking. Easier to learn, no multiple inheritance and other things which nobody know anyway :-)
LLVM bytecode/compilation backend gives near-C speed.
Is has both garbage collection & explicit object destruction.
Real OS threads, native support of multicore computers. Multithreading is part of language, not a library.
Types have the same width on any platform. int(32), long(64) e.t.c
Built in post and preconditions, asserts, tiny unit tests. You write a method - you can write all these things in 1 place, so you have related things in one place. If you worry that your class sourcecode will be bloated with this - it's IDEs work to hide what you don't need now.
Java-like exception handling (i.e. you have to handle all exceptions)
I guess I'll leave web & cluster features for now...
What you think? Are there any existing similar languages which I missed?
To summarize: You language has no real selling points. It just does what a dozen other languages already did, with syntax and semantics just slightly off, depending on where the programmer comes from. This may be a good thing, as it makes the language easier to adapt, but you also have to convince people to trouble to switch. All this stuff has to be built and debugged and documented again, tools have to be programmed, people have to learn it and convince their pointy-haired bosses to use it, etc. "So it's language X with a few features from Y and nicer syntax? But it won't make my application's code 15% shorter and cleaner, it won't free me from boilerplate X, etc - and it won't work with my IDE." The last one is important. Tools matter. If there are no good tools for a language, few people will shy away, rightfully so.
And finally, it enforces many things that real teams have to enforce - like one crossplatform IDE, one codestyle, one web framework.
Sounds like a downside! How does the language "enforce one X"? How do you convince programmers this coding style is the one true style? Why shouldn't somebody go and replace the dog slow, hardly maintained, severly limited IDE you "enforce" with something better? How could one web framework possibly fit all applications? Programmers rarely like to be forced into X, and they are sometimes right.
Also, you language will have to talk to others. So you have ready-made standard solutions for multithreading and web development in mind? Maybe you should start with a FFI instead. Python can use extensions written in C or C++, use dynamic libraries through ctypes, and with Cython it's amazingly simple to wrap any given C library with a Python interface. Do you have any idea how many important libraries are written in C? Unless your language can use these, people can hardly get (real-world) stuff done with it. Just think of GUI. Most mayor GUI toolkits are C or C++. And Java has hundreds of libraries (the other JVM languages profit much from Java interop) for many many purposes.
Finally, on performance: LLVM can give you native code generation, which is a huge plus (performance-wise, but also because the result is standalone), but the LLVM optimizers are limited, too. Don't expect it to beat C. Especially not hand-tuned C compiled via icc on Intel CPUs ;)
"Are there any existing similar
languages which I missed?"
D? Compared to your features:
The compiler has a dual license - GPL and Artistic
See example code here.
LDC targets LLVM. Support for D version 2 is under development.
Built-in garbage collection or explicit memory management.
core.thread
Types
Unit tests / Pre and Post Contracts
try/catch/finally exception handling plus scope guarantees
Responding to a few of your points individually (I've omitted what I consider either unimportant or good):
targeted for web development
Most people use php. Not because it's the best language available, that's for sure.
embeding into applications
Lua.
distributed applications, high-reliability software (but this is for distant future).
Have you carefully studied Erlang, both its design and its reference implementation?
it enforces many things that real teams have to enforce - like one crossplatform IDE, one codestyle, one web framework.
If your language becomes successful, people will make other IDEs, other code styles, other web frameworks.
Multithreading is part of language, not a library.
Really good languages for multithreading forbid side effects inside threads. Yes, in practice that pretty much means Erlang only.
Types have the same width on any platform. int(32), long(64) e.t.c
Sigh... There's only one reasonable width for integers outside of machine-level languages like C: infinite.
Designing your own language will undoubtedly teach you someting. But designing a good language is like designing a good cryptosystem: lots of amateurs try, but it takes an expert to do it well.
I suggest you read some of Norman Ramsey's answers here on programming language design, starting with this thread.
Given your interest in distributed applications, knowing Erlang is a must. As for sequential programming, the minimum is one imperative language and one functional language (ideally both Lisp/Scheme and Haskell, but F# is a good start). I also recommend knowing at least one high-level language that doesn't have objects, just so you understand that not having objects can often make the programmer's life easier (because objects are complex).
As for what could drive other people to learn your language... Good tools/libraries/frameworks can't hurt (FORTRAN, php), and a big company setting the example can't hurt (Java, C#). Good design doesn't seem to be much of a factor (a ha-ha-only-serious joke has it that what makes a language successful is using {braces} to delimit blocks: C, C++, Java, C#, php)...
What you've given us is a list of features, with no coherent philosophy, or explanation as to how they will work together. None of the features are unique. At best, you're offering incremental improvements over what's already there. I'd expect there's already languages kicking around with what you've said, it's just that they're still fairly obscure, because they didn't make it.
Languages have inertia. People have to learn new languages, and sometimes new tools. They need incentive to do so, and 20% improvement in a few features doesn't cut it.
What you need, at a minimum, is a killer app and a form of elevator pitch. (The "elevator pitch" is what you tell the higher-ups about your project when you're in the elevator with them, in current US business parlance.) You need to have your language be obviously worth learning for some purpose, and you need to be able to tell people why it's worth learning before they think "just another language by somebody who wanted to write a language" and go away.
You need to form a language community. That community needs to have some localization at first: people who work in X big company, people who want to do Y, whatever. Decide on what that community is likely to be, and come up with one big reason to switch and some reasons to believe that your language can deliver what it promises.
No.
Every buzzword you have included in your feature list is an enormous amount of work to be spec'd, implemented, documented, and tested.
How many people will be actively developing the language? I guess the web is full of failed programming language projects. (Same is true for non-mainstream OSes)
Have a look at what .Net/Visual Studio or Java/Eclipse have accomplished. That's 1000s of years of specification, development, tests, documentation, feedback, bug fixes, service packs.
During my last job I heard about somebody who wrote his own programming framework, because it was "better". The resulting program code (both in the framework and in the applications) is certainly unmaintainable once the original programmer quits, or is "hit by a bus", as the saying goes.
As the list sounds like Java++ or Mono++, you'd probably be more successful in engaging in an existing project, even if it won't have your name tag on it.
Perhaps you missed one key term. Performance.
In any case, unless this new language has some really out-of-this-world features(ex: 100% increase in performance over other web development languages), I think it will be yet another fish in the pond.
Currently I'm responsible for maintaining a framework developed/owned by my company. It's a nightmare. Unless there is a mainstream community, working on this full time, it's really an elephant. I do not appreciate my company's decision to develop its own framework(because it's supposed to be "faster") day 'n night.
The language tastes good in my opinion, I don't want use java for a simple website but I would like to have types and things like that. ASP .NET is a problem because of licensing and I can't afford those licenses for a single website... Also features looks good
Remember a lot of operator overloading: I think is the biggest thing that PHP is actually missing. It allows classes to behave much more like basic types :)
When you have something to test I'll love to help you with it! Thanks
Well, if you have to reinvent the wheel, you can go for it :)
I am not going to give you any examples of languages or language features, but I will give you one advice instead:
Supporting framework is what is the most important thing. People will tend to love it or hate it, depending on how easy is to write good code that get job done. Therefore, please do usability test before releasing it. I mean ask several people how they will do certain task and create API accordingly. Then test beta API on other coders and listen carefully to their comments.
Regards and good luck :)
There's always space for another programming language. Apart from getting the design right, I think the biggest problem is coming across as just another wannabe language. So you may want to look at your marketing, you need a big sponsor who can integrate your language into their products, or you need to generate a buzz around it, easiest way is astroturfing. Good luck.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programming_languages
NB the names G and G++ aren't taken. Oh and watch out for the patent trolls.
Edit
Oops G / G++ are taken... still there are plenty more letters left.
This sounds more like a "systems" language rather than a "web development language". The major languages in this category (other than C++/C) are D and Go.
My advice to you would be to not start from scratch but examine the possibility of creating tools or libraries for those languages, and seeing just how far you can push them.
I have a decent idea in mind. I don't see a lot of stuff around for what I have in mind and stuff that is around is implemented badly. Kind of like expert-exchange vs. stackoverflow.
I have not worked on a project by myself before, I've just been involved in working with teams for last couple of years. So I am scared to tackle what I have in mind by myself and doubting skills I already know.
Language/framework I consider myself proficient in is Java/Struts2 However, I've been wanting to learn RoR or Grails. So I need advice whether on I should implement initial version of the idea with tools I already know (Don't worry, be crapy) or start with learning new tool and side by side implement the idea?
It depends:
Are you willing to wait for the learning curve?
Is this idea so original that it will wait for you?
Is this idea so great that I would have very few bugs/ enhancements when released?
If so, learn a new language, If you have the time then it would be just great!!
but if
There is a business time limit ( ie. you want it before the next SuperBowl or Christmas etc. )
Nobody is thinking about it ( everybody thought Q/A was a solved problem when SO came into scene )
You may be victim of your own success and the lack of updates would allow your competitors add the requested features in copycat products and that would kill you.
Then make it in the technology you command right now. But make sure it does what you need and that technology may be up to the challenge.
Using the right tool for the job is the best, always, but I you need to cut a table TODAY an you only have a Hammer, start punching already!!!
I would go for a new language (and I did when I was in your place).
It makes it even more fun, and you will "kill" two birds with one stone.
If you want business approach, then do it in the technology you are most familiar with.
b.t.w You might want to make it a WIKI, or be down voted.
It depends on your goals, and what languages you're looking at.
If your goal is primarily (realistically) to learn and to have a fun side project, learn the new language. Learning a new language is a fantastic way to improve as a developer, especially if the new language is radically different (not C# to Java).
If this is really a business venture, and the new language isn't drastically more suited to the project, stick with what you know. But be realistic here about whether it's likely to be a real business venture or not. Knowledge has value, even if the project fails.
If this is a business venture, and the new technology/language is much more suited to the problem domain - you're still probably better off learning the new language. Using rails/ASP/PHP for a web page, even if you don't know the language up front, is (likely) going to be a lot better even in the intermediate term than trying to write a web-based service in C++.
I would use this as an opportunity to learn a new tool. Start out by implementing a few tutorial examples in each the new tools you're considering, and go with the one you feel is the best fit for your new project.
Even if your idea doesn't pan out, you'll gain valuable new experience.
I would say it depends on what you're trying to do. If what you know is what is the most commonly used thing for what you want to do, then stick with what you know and expand that knowledge. If a new language has been known to do what you want to do better, then by all means, go and learn the new thing.
Is the idea is business related or simply a pet project?
If it business related I will probably go with what I am best at. I don't want to have a learning curve at the beginning of my business. If the idea works, then at some point I could ported to a more suitable language.
If it just a pet project, then learn a new language. That's the best way to learn a new language.
I understand that Spencer's answer seems subjective ( java is dying part).But having worked on both Struts and ASP.NET , I would definitely recommend the latter for better tooling, community and resource availability. It definitely made me more productive.
I would also recommend learning something new. Could be asp.net or python,ruby or php. Because it is rewarding in that it gives you a different perspective.
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Have you ever tried learning a language while on a project? I have, and from my personal experience I can say that it takes courage, effort, time, thinking, lots of caffeine and no sleep. Sometimes this has to be done without choice, other times you choose to do it; if you are working on a personal project for example.
What I normally do in this kind of situation, and I believe everyone does, is "build" on top of my current knowledge of languages, structures, syntax and logic. What I find difficult to cope with, is the difference of integrity in some cases. Some languages offer a good background for future learning and "language study", they pose as a good source of information or a frame of reference and can give a "firm" grasp of what's to come. Other languages form or introduce a new way of thinking and are harder to get used to.
Sometimes you unintentionally think in a specific language and when introduced to a new way of thinking, a new language, can cause confusion or make you get lost between the "borders" of your new and your current knowledge of languages.
What can be a good solution in this case? What should be used to broaden the knowledge of the new language, a new way of thinking, and maintain or incorporate the current knowledge of other languages inside the "borders" of the new language?
I find I need to do a project to properly learn a language, but those can be personal projects. When I learned Python on the job, I first expected (and found) a significant slowdown in my productivity for a while. I read the standard tutorials, coding standards and I lurked on the Python list for a while, which gave me a much better idea of the best practices of the language.
Doing things like coding dojos and stuff when learning a language can help you get a feel for things. I just recently changed jobs and went back to Java, and I spent some time working on toy programs just to get back in the feel for things (I'm also reading Effective Java, 2nd edition as my previous major experience had been with Java 1.4).
I think, in some respects no matter what the impetus for learning the language, you have to start by imitating good patterns in the new language. Whether that means finding a good book, with excellent code examples, good on-line tutorials, or following the lead of a more experienced developer, you have to absorb what it means to write good code in a particular language first. Once you have developed a level of comfort, you can start branching out and and experimenting with alternatives to the patterns that you've learned, looking for ways to apply things you've learned from other languages, but keeping within the "rules" of the language. Eventually, you'll get to the point where you know you can 'break the rules" that you learned earlier because you have enough experience to know when they do/don't apply.
My personal preference, even when forced to learn a new language, is to start with some throw away code. Even starting from good tutorials, you'll undoubtedly write code that later you will look back on and not understand how stupid you could have been. I prefer, if possible, to write as my first foray into a language code that will be thrown away and not come back to haunt me later. The alternative is to spend a lot of time refactoring as you learn more and more. Eventually, you'll end up doing this, too.
I would like to mention ALT.NET here
Self-organizing, ad-hoc community of developers bound by a desire to improve ourselves, challenge assumptions, and help each other pursue excellence in the practice of software development.
So in the spirit of ALT.NET, it is challenging but useful to reach out of your comfort zone to learn new languages. Some things that really helped me are as follows:
Understand the history behind a language or script. Knowing evolution helps a lot.
Pick the right book. Research StackOverflow and Amazon.com to find the right book to help you ease the growing pains.
OOP is fairly common in most of the mature languages, so you can skip many of the chapters related to OOP in many books. Syntax learning will be a gradual process. I commonly bookmark some quick handy guides for that.
Read as many community forums as possible to understand the common pitfalls of the new language.
Attend some local meetups to interact with the community and share your pains.
Take one pitch at a time by building small not so complicated applications and thereby gaining momentum.
Make sure you create a reference frame for what you need to learn. Things like how security, logging, multithreading are handled.
Be Open minded, you can be critical, but if you hate something then do not learn that language.
Finally, I think it is worthwhile to learn one strong languages like C# or Java, one functional language and one scripting language like ruby or python.
These things helped me tremendously and I think will help all software engineers and architects to really gear for any development environment.
I learned PHP after I was hired to be the project lead on the Zend Framework project.
It helped that I had 20 years of professional programming background, and good knowledge of C, Java, Perl, JavaScript, SQL, etc. I've also gravitated towards dynamic scripting languages for most of my career. I've written applications in awk, frameworks in shell, macro packages in troff, I even wrote a forum using only sed.
Things to help learn a language on the job:
Reading code and documentation.
Listening to mailing lists and blogs of the community.
Talking to experts in the language, fortunately several of whom were my immediate teammates.
Writing practice code, and asked for code reviews and coaching.(Zend_Console_Getopt was my first significant PHP contribution).
Learning the tools that go along with the language. PHPUnit, Xdebug, phpDoc, phing, etc.
Of course I did apply what I knew from other programming languages. Many computer science concepts are language-universal. The differences of a given language are often simply idiomatic, a way of stating something that can be done another way in another language. This is especially true for languages like Perl or PHP, which both borrow a lot of idioms from earlier languages.
It also helped that I took courses in Compiler Design in college. Having a good foundation in how languages are constructed makes it easier to pick up new languages. At some level, they're all just ways of abstracting runtime stacks and object references.
If you're a junior member of the team and don't know the language, this is not necessarily an issue at all. As long as there is some code review and supervision, you can be a productive.
Language syntax is one issue, but architectural differences are a more important concern. Many languages are also development platforms, and if you don't have experience with the platform, you don't know how to create a viable solution architecture. So if you're the project lead or working solo, you'd better have some experience on the platform before you do your design work.
For example, I would say an experienced C# coder with no VB experience would probably survive a VB.NET project just fine. In fact, it would be more difficult for a developer who only had experience in C#/ASP.NET to complete a C# WPF project than a VB ASP.NET project. An experienced PHP developer might hesitate a bit on a ColdFusion project, but they probably won't make any serious blunders because they are familiar with a script based web development architecture.
Many concepts, such as object modelling and database query strategies, translate just fine between languages. But there is always a learning curve for a new platform, and sometimes it can be quite nasty. The worst case is that the project must be thrown out because the architure is too wrong to refactor.
I like to learn a new language while working on a project, because a real project will usually force me to learn aspects of the language that I might otherwise skip. One of the first things I like to to is read code in that language, and jump in. I find resources (such as books and various internet sites) to help as I go along.
Then, after I've been working on it for a while, I like to read (or re-read) books or other resources on the language. By this time I have some knowledge, so this will help solidify some things and also point out areas where I am flat-out wrong in my understanding. For instance, I can see that I was making incorrect assumptions about similarities between languages.
This also applies to tools -- after using a tool for a while and learning the basics, reading (or skimming) the documentation can teach me a lot.
In my opinion, you should try to avoid that. I know, most of the times you can't but in any case try not to mix the new language with the old one, and never add to the mixture old habits, practices and patterns.
Always try to find resources that will help you get through the new language in the way the language works, not in the way other languages do; that will never have a happy ending, and if it does it will be very hard to modify it to the right way.
Cheers.
Yes I have.
I mean, is there another way? The only language I ever learned that was not on a project was ABC basic, which was what you used on my first computer.
I would recommend if you start with a certain language, stick with it. I only say that because many times in the past I tried more and more different ones, and the one I started out with was the best :D
Everytime I have/want to learn a new language, I force myself to find something to code.
But to be sure I did it well, I always want to be able to check my code and what it ouputs.
To do so, I just try to do the same kind of stuff with languages I know and to compare the outputs. For that, I created a little project (hosted on Github) with an exercise sheet and the correction for every language I learnt. It's a good way to learn in my opinion because it gives you a real little project.
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I've been programming for several years now and since then I have learned several concepts and techniques that have made me a better programmer (i.e. OOP, MVC, regex, hashing, etc). I feel too that by been able to learn several languages (basic, pascal, C/C++, lisp, prolog, python) I have widen my horizons in a very possitive way. But since some time ago I feel like I'm not learning any new good "trick". Can you suggest some interesting concept/technique/trick that could make me retake the learning flow?
A good paradigm shift always allows you to see things differently and become a better developer. I would suggest you read up on functional programming and maybe learn a functional language like Haskell or Scheme.
YAGNI (You Ain't Gonna Need It) and DTSTTCPW (Do The Simplest Thing That Could Possibly Work)
It's easy to spend a lot of time thinking about edge cases, and find that you've implemented something that's completely useless. I believe that a far better approach is to knock out a simple prototype, and then poke and prod it until you understand the domain well enough to create production code.
Recognize, however, that your prototype is going to evolve into production code whether you like it or not. So write it with that in mind.
Learning how to use your IDE and tools. This to me resulted in a far greater productivity increase.
For examples:
learning how to use a source level debugger
using tools like purify/boundschecker
fxcop
etc. I realize I am dating myself, but those were big steps. There are many more.
Any time you can change the way you think about a problem or solve a problem without having to undo previous work is HUGE gain. Process, tools, etc all can help with that. Don't limit yourself to finding silver bullet techniques for productivity gains.
Watching productive people work and getting them to tell you what they are doing and why is also invaluable.
If I'm honest, using, and learning a great framework like .NET has really increased my productivity.
I'm often amazed what people are willing to reinvent due to their ignorance that the very same function already exists in the framework.
AGILE and especially Test Driven Development. Best thing to happen to software development since the invention of Object Oriented Design.
Concerning coding, I'd say design patterns and architecture patterns are always nice to look at and can help you write cleaner/better code.
For methodology I would advice Agile development that is great. There are a numerous number of techniques and methods (I'm personally fan of extreme programming) and reading that can keep you busy and improve your general approach.
Finally I'd say learn new languages like Ruby
Design patterns
SCRUM process
DiSC assessment (and understanding of how it applies to collaborative s/w development)
StackOverflow.com (of course!)
Google
... other stuff too, I'm sure
Design Patterns. Learning how to break dependence upon implementation and inheritance, and depending on interfaces (contracts) instead changed the way I think about programming.
Debugging. Once I figured out how to actually step through the code and go line-by-line, examining the underlying state, it revolutionized how I troubleshoot code.
Practice, practice practice: I didn't realize how important it is to keep working on my skills apart from work until a relatively short time ago. Mistakes and solutions I make at home make me a better programmer at work, and vice a versa. Learning should never stop if you want to be good at something, and programming isn't an exception.
If I had to pick just one, I'd say Test-Driven Design, aka TDD: write unit tests (and check that they fail) before you incrementally add features.
Try to learn to see things from the user's standpoint.
For example:
learn how to write meaningful error messages
learn how to produce usable applications
learn some basic speed-optimization techniques
Remember that the user sees your application, not your code.
VIM Quick Reference Card. After I started using advanced vim (macros, plugins) I have stopped doing any repetitive actions during coding manually.
Apart from that, Scrum and working at night, when noone interrupts You gave me the highest benefit.
If you want to expand your experience into web programming, you should try and get a good handle on the HTTP Request/Response paradigm. This will make creating web apps much easier on you because you understand the underlying framework.
(http)://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertext_Transfer_Protocol
I would look at some of the newer languages that combine OO and functional elements, like C# or Scala.
Learning Smalltalk has helped me become more productive. It is an easy language to learn and things can be built extremely quickly. For a stunning productivity aid check out Seaside, it's a framework for building web applications. Moreover, if you have only been used to curly brace languages Smalltalk will also make you smile!
I was helped by the following paradigms in this order:
1) bottom-up programming
2) top-down programming (C, Pascal)
3) object-oriented programming (Smalltalk, Java)
4) functional programming (lisp, Mathematica)
with some logic programming thrown in (prolog).
nHibernate hands down. The fact that I dont need to write database functionality for my business objects is very useful and time saving.
High level understanding, creating good abstractions with proper dependencies, is what pays off in long term. For example, Law of Demeter is an important guideline. I recommend also reading Eric Evan's Domain Driven Design
Code generators. They're the best thing in software engineering.
Would you like to write all your projects in asm? Nope, let's generate it from C++. Or from something sat above the JVM which diligently generates the necessary machine code.
Duplicating the same source code all over the place, but stuck with a language that insists on the line noise? Use macros.
Want to use lambdas in a language that doesn't have them? Work out how to fake the anonymous name and variable scoping required then generate the boilerplate.
None of the readily available languages quite fit your pattern of thought, desired syntax or even semantics? Write a compiler for a new one.
Better languages are nice. Better design patterns are nice. Emacs is awesome. But compilers are where all the power lies in our field. I suspect the only reason they aren't mentioned in any of the other answers is that we can't imagine programming without any.
Copy/paste technique