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When I was a kid I wrote hundreds of programs in BASIC but then as I got older I got out of it (when I discovered girls). Now I want to get back into it again and I don't want to let my prior knowledge & experience go to waste - is there a modern language that is at least somewhat similar? Every time I try to search I get pushed toward Visual BASIC but I would rather learn a modern language that's more widely used. Any suggestions? Thank you in advance!
Start from scratch.
Programming in a modern language (Object or Functional) is different enough from programming basic on a C64 that you will probably carry over more bad habits than good ones.
I would pick a language you like the look and feel of, but mostly think of what you want to do:
Java is probably the "safe" bet, especially if you want to start a career in programming or if you want to work on Android development.
If you want to program for Windows / Microsoft devices then C#
If you want to want to write for the Mac or iOs devices then Swift.
If you like the idea of functional programming then Clojure is a good bet.
If you want to do web development then Javascript and maybe Ruby
If you want to work on things like machine learning or statistics then Python to start and then maybe R
If you want to be cutting edge and maybe work on some DevOps kind of things I would suggest Go
With all of these I would suggest also learning some flavor of SQL
Languages I personally would generally avoid either because they are overly complex or tend to teach bad programming practices:
Objective C, C++, Perl, Lisp, Ruby
If you want to explore some other more esoteric languages I recommend two books:
Seven Languages in Seven Weeks
Seven More Languages in Seven Weeks
Keep in mind, that just because you might start from scratch it doesn't mean your prior experience goes to waste, it just may not be as useful as you may like.
I was in this exact position about eight years ago; whilst I could do some assembly and BASIC, these skills were (and are) generally not required in a modern context. So I went to study a Foundation Degree in Enterprise Computing in the UK (MMU affiliated) because this had Java. Due to a Government change in 2010, that cut funding to Higher Education, the 3rd year of that course was scrapped for all affiliated establishments, so I spent a year at the University of Derby on its Games Programming degree, which was all programming in C, C++, MIPs assembly, C# and Java.
I found the following useful:
6502 is good if you want to learn more modern assembly like MIPs; Z80 is probably good for x86/64, though that is an educated guess rather than fact (I use both 65x and Z80 in personal projects today mixed with C when I get the chance);
C is the most beautiful language that I've ever used. I did C programming on Windows and for the PSP. I've since made Sinclair ZX81 games with C and done a bit of experimental programming for the Commodore 64 and Sinclair ZX Spectrum. I love C;
Object Orientated programming took me a while for me to get my head around. At first, I thought an object was simply a container for computer RAM. Maybe this is a good base to think about it, maybe not;
Going to University is a good thing because you will always learn something if you apply yourself;
8-bit BASIC can still teach you a thing or two if you can transpose your logic without bad practises that 8-bit BASIC encourages;
I had most difficulty understanding databases, mostly the relational algebra side but also all other database stuff. I finally got my head around M:M relationships sometime last year after years of looking at it. If you struggle with SQL/Database stuff, don't give up;
I now work at a PHP Web Application developer with bespoke OO and Procedural frameworks. I have also worked with simpler off-the-shelf solutions such as Magento, CodeIgniter, Joomla! and ExpressionEngine (built on CodeIgniter).
I'm a second year Computer Science student, and am currently applying for jobs for the Summer '11 coop term, this will be my first.
I have found a lot of the jobs 'perfect' candidate have many technical skills I do not possess.
For example, one which I have an interview Monday for, uses Java Enterprise Edition, but I've only used regular Java. Also many things I have no experience with whatsoever, like XML, Adobe FLEX, and Ruby.
Obviously the employer is not expecting a potential employee to have all of these skills, but I was wondering how difficult it would be to pick them up?
I have a strong knowledge of C and Java, and of many concepts and data structures.
With this in mind, is it difficult to pick up languages like Ruby or less related tech like XML or AJAX for example?
Or if I have a good background in compsci, do the concepts apply broadly, and mostly it's just the syntax and rudimentary concepts I will need to pick up to get started?
Please if you have any advice, feel free to share.
Thanks for all your help!
PS: I noticed that most people seem to call Java Enterprise 'J2EE' isnt it now just 'Java EE'? Whats up with that?
Once you've mastered one programming language, you'll easily catch up on a whole family of related languages. The differences are more than just syntax, but there is more or less a fixed set of features that most of the popular languages provide.
A good way to gather programming experience would be to become very proficient in at least one language. I don't know what your experience with C is, but unless it's over 3 years it won't take you much time to get to the same level in any other language, and it won't be too hard anyway. If you ask me, knowing C is a "must" because you learn a little about how the computer executes your programs. Some of the higher-level languages have been (initially) implemented in C themselves.
I'm not a Ruby programmer but i'm guessing it's not a big deal if you already know some C and Java. It's probably even easier to learn than those two. XML is just a data format, and AJAX is a buzzword for "doing stuff dynamically in the browser-based client side of a web application". So there isn't much "tech" to learn here, it's just a matter of knowing and mixing skills to get that kind of thing done. (Basically you'll need to learn at least a little bit about javascript, HTML and HTTP, and know how browsers and web servers work).
Computer science is a branch of mathematics, and as such it will always be relevant. Learning about specific algorithms, data structures, etc. is important but more important (from a practical point of view) is the knowledge of how algorithms or data structures perform, how they can be analyzed, what affects their performance, etc. If you got the basics, you can always open a book by yourself and learn more algorithms and data structures, and it's probably a good idea.
Finally, a useful set of things to know in today's software world is: networking (esp. TCP/IP and HTTP), C, Java / C# or both, minimal knowledge of Javascript, and a little experience with programmatic access to XML
I am currently taking a year off between high school and college (computer science).
I'm pretty good with Visual basic (unfortunately, this is the only language my school offered in High School). I've dabbled in some PHP, and have pretty good knowledge of broad programming principals and concepts.
I'm more interested in web programming then conventional, but I'd like to do both.
What are some good languages I should pick up over this next eight months, and what are some good, (tough but attainable) goals I should set for myself in this time frame?
Thanks!
If it's web programming you're after, you have three top contenders at the moment for web development (in no particular order):
ASP.Net
Ruby on Rails
PHP
If you've been schooled on VB, the ASP.Net might offer the most familiar development environment, but all three are very marketable.
As far as personal development and goal-setting is concerned and given you only have 8 months to work with, I'd say you want to get intimate with the following concepts and how the work in practice:
unit testing
CSS
JavaScript
See if you can write your first practical application. This will set you up incredibly well for future employment if you can say you actually delivered something (grades are good, but delivery and experience is better).
If you really want to aim high, see if you can secure a casual part-time job at a software shop.
Ruby on Rails is pretty cool and easy to learn esp. if you are after web development.
AJAX can help you with giving your web page some cool features.
I would suggest you to get the book : Agile Development with Ruby on Rails. It will help you get started.
You may want to focus on the language that the college you will be attending will be teaching their low-level classes in. this way, you can have a bit of a head start on the class, giving you more time for your other classes.
I think most colleges currently start off in Java. You should be able to find that out with a bit of research.
If it is good grades and ease of programming in college you seek, learn the language of choice of the school you plan on attending. Most schools stick with one primary language for the introductory classes as many universities teach conceptual programming. I think the most common languages right now for universities to teach are Java and C++ as both offer good, cross-platform introductions into object-oriented concepts such as polymorphism and aggregation.
If you are attending a technical college or community college for an associates degree, those are normally more applied and teach "how to program a website with PHP" or similar. In that case, you may focus on the fundamentals of the class such as how do web application work, learn about compilers and how they work, etc. Things they won't teach you but are valuable to know in the real world.
If you want to parlay this knowledge into a job writing web applications, you must consider where you may work. Different industries have accepted different languages. Many young businesses and industries accept newer languages such as PHP, Ruby, etc. Some shops are purely Windows (there are a lot) and do much of their web apps in .NET. Then there are still a number of middleware-based solutions such as WebSphere, WebLogic, JBoss, etc. There are also some in-between things that are still web focused such as PeopleTools programming. You may also consider learning about web application scaling.
If I were you, I would focus on a primary skill you already posess, and nurture that so that you become highly skilled. You can't master everything, but being an expert in something makes you desirable.
Hope this helps.
Read some books.
The Pragmatic Programmer. From Journeyman to Master, Thomas, Hunt - to make your brain think in a pragmatic way, not PHP or other technology way. PHP or Ruby will die, the knowledge from this book won't as it's universal.
Apprenticeship Patterns, Hoover, Oshineye - to plan your career, get to know what's important, what to avoid and what to do to make yourself better.
Personally, I'd start looking at data structures and algorithms, they are the building blocks of good computer science knowledge, as most of them will make use of the majority of features of any given programming language, and as you learn to implement these in the chosen language, you'll get to grips with the programming language.
I heartily agree with Muad'Dib. Look at what language the course is using, and start using that language. If it's C++, then you can get utilities like Cygwin for Windows where you can develop in a virtual linux box without having to re-wipe your computer.
If it's Visual Studio stuff, then there's the MSDN Express stuff that's free from Microsoft, although it's a bit of a download.
Also, the Pragmatic Programmer is a MUST READ! It's full of great advice, and you're at the very best stage to start picking up good habits, start doing that now, and you'll go far in the programming world.
Hope that helps.
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At home I'm working on a large personal project written in Java. I recently found employment as a C# developer.
After an 8 hour workday reading C# code, I find it very hard to switch back to Java at home. Actually, my home project stalled almost completely since I've been employed.
At first I thought I'd have to wait for vacation to actually switch back to Java, but even after a week of not having C# on the brain, I did not manage to come into Java-mood again. I do not want to admit that my home project died, but I can't really see a way to overcome this issue.
If it's that bad, can you start the project again in C#? It may be quicker than waiting for your java-mood to return. It should be quicker than starting from scratch, as you've coded the logic and domain already, so you may be able to translate-and-type your way through that bit.
Use a good (and comparable) IDE in both. I switch between C# and Java, and find the combination of Visual Studio with JetBrains ReSharper for C# and IntelliJ Idea for Java makes this straightforward.
Celebrate the differences - I find a spell in C# helps my Java and vice versa. Differences in, for example, the collection frameworks just help you understand the implementations in each language more deeply.
Use the similarities to your advantage. Syntactically, the differences are not great. You should be writing code, not writing C# or writing Java. As Steve McConnell would put it, "code into the language and not in the language" (or something like that - think it's from Code Complete).
In fact, read Code Complete if you haven't already - great training for flipping between languages.
I suppose you could call this the habitual time to recovery,.
It can help to generalize to: programming logic knowledge + syntax and API = Language Knowledge ... because ...
Human beings are creatures of habit and build efficient work methods, memories and psychology based on environments and tasks we perform most often. This is a good thing.
I recently spent alot of time programming in Python, after being almost 100% C for a long time. I picked up Python quite easily and now am switching back to C. To my surprise, the problems I thought I would encounter (missing semi-colons, the random impulse to indent) were not there.
I concluded this is because:
While I was programming Python, I was frequently (daily) looking at the C source of other projects to remember the ones I didn't document too well. Because my C projects fit in with the Python stuff.
I was always looking at the C implementation of some of the Python stuff
I guess the trick is to relate new skills to old skills so that when you conduct tasks in the new skillset, your brain is still thinking about the old skills and how they related. Many theorise that learning is based on this relational foundation in your mind, and knowing about it can help you reduce the learning curve and time to recovery.
Think of it like a relational database. When you do something new, create a forign key and normalize things out. Don't create a whole new table or database.
Learn a generalization of programming logic and build on that with just the changes between languages. You will learn/switch faster.
Sorry for the bad RDBMS analogy
Your brain is full.
Full Brain http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2469/brainfull.gif
Firstly, if you've put in an 8 hour day programming in any language, it may not be switching languages so much as just needing a break from programming. I can only speak for myself, and I know some SO'ers may feel otherwise, but I often need a break from programming after a full work day of doing it.
Currently I prefer to program in Python, but my job wants me to do shell scripting, Java, JavaScript, PHP, and IDL (that's Interactive Data Language, not Interface Description Language). So, I try to do some Python at home to keep those skills from atrophying. What I find (in addition to often needing a break as mentioned above) is that I get my languages confused a lot when I first switch from one to another. It's easy at that point to give up, but I find that as I get mentally deeper into programming with a given language I make fewer mistakes from the language confusion. So, maybe if you can just push past that first reluctance to use Java, you'll have success. YMMV, of course, and good luck!
This is because of something in psychology called the interference effect, or Stroop Effect. The two tasks are closely related (programming) so the knowledge brought into your mind by one language interferes with the knowledge brought into your mind by the other language.
Here's a cute example of a simple task that is hard to do because of this effect:
http://www.apa.org/science/stroop.html
Switching between two different frameworks is very hard to do. It's even harder if you haven't been doing them for very long.
The question, I think, has to come back to you in that you should ask yourself what you prefer now. If you still like Java and want to keep your skills up in Java, you will probably need to spend more time with it on a semi-daily basis. Working with it on nights and weekends and making sure there are no long breaks in between.
If you prefer C# now and really have no interest in persuing Java, I would convert the project at home to C# as that can only make you a better C# programmer and make you better at your day job.
I wonder if it's related to the similarities between those particular languages. Granted I've not actually used C#, but it seems pretty similar to Java. The similarities might make it difficult to context switch from work to hobby. Maybe you could learn and switch to Python, Haskell, Lisp, etc. for your personal project.
You could try spending some time programming in a completely different language in your spare time. For example, write something in Haskell, Prolog, Mercury, Oz, or Factor.
When (if?) you come back to Java, its similarities to C# will be much more striking than its differences.
That is normal. It may be a problem of Cognitive Flexibility and Inflexibility. It happens with human speech too.
Check yourself. If you are getting too tired to work at home after your regular 8 hour workday reading C# code, and also you want so much to finish your project, and now you find difficult to code in java, you may be suffering from anxiety. If you take some energy drink, coffee, cola, then you are favoring anxiety.
There are exercises for keeping yourself Cognitive Flexible. One of them is to switch for a while (couple of minutes) to Java instead of spending so much time in C#. It is like when you are programming in Java and have to switch to SQL, then to HTML. You are being flexible and switching.
Good luck.
As I answer this i feel I need to make some assumptions here based on personal experience. I write code in C++ or c# on side projects while at work am forced to dangle between php and python
There was a time i was without a steady day job and kept pretty busy on side projects.
When i landed my day job the enthusiasm i had for my side projects dwindled based on two major factors... Like you i was at my job 8 to 9 hrs a day.
2ndly i had an increased steady source of additional revenue so the motivation to code just to earn a living drastically reduced and i found myself more and more opting not to take up any new projects after work coz i jus wasnt in the mood anymore.
I also discovered that with this new attitude i started making rookie mistakes when coding in c++ unlike before. After changing my attitude things picked up again.
My best guess is that you are going through the same thing that i was going through. I suggest you find new ways to get motivated once you leave work and you will find it easier to continue programming in java.
I have a similar thing at work. I write code in JavaScript and c# but at home I write code in Python and JavaScript.
I have sometimes caught myself writing python style code in c# and then getting my tests failing. I agree with Nat that working in a language that is totally different from your work language will help you see the similarities and that they only differences will be where the libraries exist!
You know when you are overworked: it's when you try to find F1 key in the elevator cabin to launch it up!
I think java is for the diligent, and .net is for the lazy.
Perhaps someone would be angry for that,but I wanna say I am a .Neter.The .net syntax is less strict than the java's.In fact in the source code of .net,there is some simplify.
for example,we can use Convert.toDateTime(string) to Convert a String to DateTime directly.
But in java,we should make the difinition of the string's format such as "yyyy-dd-mm" then we can convert.
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Have you ever tried learning a language while on a project? I have, and from my personal experience I can say that it takes courage, effort, time, thinking, lots of caffeine and no sleep. Sometimes this has to be done without choice, other times you choose to do it; if you are working on a personal project for example.
What I normally do in this kind of situation, and I believe everyone does, is "build" on top of my current knowledge of languages, structures, syntax and logic. What I find difficult to cope with, is the difference of integrity in some cases. Some languages offer a good background for future learning and "language study", they pose as a good source of information or a frame of reference and can give a "firm" grasp of what's to come. Other languages form or introduce a new way of thinking and are harder to get used to.
Sometimes you unintentionally think in a specific language and when introduced to a new way of thinking, a new language, can cause confusion or make you get lost between the "borders" of your new and your current knowledge of languages.
What can be a good solution in this case? What should be used to broaden the knowledge of the new language, a new way of thinking, and maintain or incorporate the current knowledge of other languages inside the "borders" of the new language?
I find I need to do a project to properly learn a language, but those can be personal projects. When I learned Python on the job, I first expected (and found) a significant slowdown in my productivity for a while. I read the standard tutorials, coding standards and I lurked on the Python list for a while, which gave me a much better idea of the best practices of the language.
Doing things like coding dojos and stuff when learning a language can help you get a feel for things. I just recently changed jobs and went back to Java, and I spent some time working on toy programs just to get back in the feel for things (I'm also reading Effective Java, 2nd edition as my previous major experience had been with Java 1.4).
I think, in some respects no matter what the impetus for learning the language, you have to start by imitating good patterns in the new language. Whether that means finding a good book, with excellent code examples, good on-line tutorials, or following the lead of a more experienced developer, you have to absorb what it means to write good code in a particular language first. Once you have developed a level of comfort, you can start branching out and and experimenting with alternatives to the patterns that you've learned, looking for ways to apply things you've learned from other languages, but keeping within the "rules" of the language. Eventually, you'll get to the point where you know you can 'break the rules" that you learned earlier because you have enough experience to know when they do/don't apply.
My personal preference, even when forced to learn a new language, is to start with some throw away code. Even starting from good tutorials, you'll undoubtedly write code that later you will look back on and not understand how stupid you could have been. I prefer, if possible, to write as my first foray into a language code that will be thrown away and not come back to haunt me later. The alternative is to spend a lot of time refactoring as you learn more and more. Eventually, you'll end up doing this, too.
I would like to mention ALT.NET here
Self-organizing, ad-hoc community of developers bound by a desire to improve ourselves, challenge assumptions, and help each other pursue excellence in the practice of software development.
So in the spirit of ALT.NET, it is challenging but useful to reach out of your comfort zone to learn new languages. Some things that really helped me are as follows:
Understand the history behind a language or script. Knowing evolution helps a lot.
Pick the right book. Research StackOverflow and Amazon.com to find the right book to help you ease the growing pains.
OOP is fairly common in most of the mature languages, so you can skip many of the chapters related to OOP in many books. Syntax learning will be a gradual process. I commonly bookmark some quick handy guides for that.
Read as many community forums as possible to understand the common pitfalls of the new language.
Attend some local meetups to interact with the community and share your pains.
Take one pitch at a time by building small not so complicated applications and thereby gaining momentum.
Make sure you create a reference frame for what you need to learn. Things like how security, logging, multithreading are handled.
Be Open minded, you can be critical, but if you hate something then do not learn that language.
Finally, I think it is worthwhile to learn one strong languages like C# or Java, one functional language and one scripting language like ruby or python.
These things helped me tremendously and I think will help all software engineers and architects to really gear for any development environment.
I learned PHP after I was hired to be the project lead on the Zend Framework project.
It helped that I had 20 years of professional programming background, and good knowledge of C, Java, Perl, JavaScript, SQL, etc. I've also gravitated towards dynamic scripting languages for most of my career. I've written applications in awk, frameworks in shell, macro packages in troff, I even wrote a forum using only sed.
Things to help learn a language on the job:
Reading code and documentation.
Listening to mailing lists and blogs of the community.
Talking to experts in the language, fortunately several of whom were my immediate teammates.
Writing practice code, and asked for code reviews and coaching.(Zend_Console_Getopt was my first significant PHP contribution).
Learning the tools that go along with the language. PHPUnit, Xdebug, phpDoc, phing, etc.
Of course I did apply what I knew from other programming languages. Many computer science concepts are language-universal. The differences of a given language are often simply idiomatic, a way of stating something that can be done another way in another language. This is especially true for languages like Perl or PHP, which both borrow a lot of idioms from earlier languages.
It also helped that I took courses in Compiler Design in college. Having a good foundation in how languages are constructed makes it easier to pick up new languages. At some level, they're all just ways of abstracting runtime stacks and object references.
If you're a junior member of the team and don't know the language, this is not necessarily an issue at all. As long as there is some code review and supervision, you can be a productive.
Language syntax is one issue, but architectural differences are a more important concern. Many languages are also development platforms, and if you don't have experience with the platform, you don't know how to create a viable solution architecture. So if you're the project lead or working solo, you'd better have some experience on the platform before you do your design work.
For example, I would say an experienced C# coder with no VB experience would probably survive a VB.NET project just fine. In fact, it would be more difficult for a developer who only had experience in C#/ASP.NET to complete a C# WPF project than a VB ASP.NET project. An experienced PHP developer might hesitate a bit on a ColdFusion project, but they probably won't make any serious blunders because they are familiar with a script based web development architecture.
Many concepts, such as object modelling and database query strategies, translate just fine between languages. But there is always a learning curve for a new platform, and sometimes it can be quite nasty. The worst case is that the project must be thrown out because the architure is too wrong to refactor.
I like to learn a new language while working on a project, because a real project will usually force me to learn aspects of the language that I might otherwise skip. One of the first things I like to to is read code in that language, and jump in. I find resources (such as books and various internet sites) to help as I go along.
Then, after I've been working on it for a while, I like to read (or re-read) books or other resources on the language. By this time I have some knowledge, so this will help solidify some things and also point out areas where I am flat-out wrong in my understanding. For instance, I can see that I was making incorrect assumptions about similarities between languages.
This also applies to tools -- after using a tool for a while and learning the basics, reading (or skimming) the documentation can teach me a lot.
In my opinion, you should try to avoid that. I know, most of the times you can't but in any case try not to mix the new language with the old one, and never add to the mixture old habits, practices and patterns.
Always try to find resources that will help you get through the new language in the way the language works, not in the way other languages do; that will never have a happy ending, and if it does it will be very hard to modify it to the right way.
Cheers.
Yes I have.
I mean, is there another way? The only language I ever learned that was not on a project was ABC basic, which was what you used on my first computer.
I would recommend if you start with a certain language, stick with it. I only say that because many times in the past I tried more and more different ones, and the one I started out with was the best :D
Everytime I have/want to learn a new language, I force myself to find something to code.
But to be sure I did it well, I always want to be able to check my code and what it ouputs.
To do so, I just try to do the same kind of stuff with languages I know and to compare the outputs. For that, I created a little project (hosted on Github) with an exercise sheet and the correction for every language I learnt. It's a good way to learn in my opinion because it gives you a real little project.