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I'm a second year Computer Science student, and am currently applying for jobs for the Summer '11 coop term, this will be my first.
I have found a lot of the jobs 'perfect' candidate have many technical skills I do not possess.
For example, one which I have an interview Monday for, uses Java Enterprise Edition, but I've only used regular Java. Also many things I have no experience with whatsoever, like XML, Adobe FLEX, and Ruby.
Obviously the employer is not expecting a potential employee to have all of these skills, but I was wondering how difficult it would be to pick them up?
I have a strong knowledge of C and Java, and of many concepts and data structures.
With this in mind, is it difficult to pick up languages like Ruby or less related tech like XML or AJAX for example?
Or if I have a good background in compsci, do the concepts apply broadly, and mostly it's just the syntax and rudimentary concepts I will need to pick up to get started?
Please if you have any advice, feel free to share.
Thanks for all your help!
PS: I noticed that most people seem to call Java Enterprise 'J2EE' isnt it now just 'Java EE'? Whats up with that?
Once you've mastered one programming language, you'll easily catch up on a whole family of related languages. The differences are more than just syntax, but there is more or less a fixed set of features that most of the popular languages provide.
A good way to gather programming experience would be to become very proficient in at least one language. I don't know what your experience with C is, but unless it's over 3 years it won't take you much time to get to the same level in any other language, and it won't be too hard anyway. If you ask me, knowing C is a "must" because you learn a little about how the computer executes your programs. Some of the higher-level languages have been (initially) implemented in C themselves.
I'm not a Ruby programmer but i'm guessing it's not a big deal if you already know some C and Java. It's probably even easier to learn than those two. XML is just a data format, and AJAX is a buzzword for "doing stuff dynamically in the browser-based client side of a web application". So there isn't much "tech" to learn here, it's just a matter of knowing and mixing skills to get that kind of thing done. (Basically you'll need to learn at least a little bit about javascript, HTML and HTTP, and know how browsers and web servers work).
Computer science is a branch of mathematics, and as such it will always be relevant. Learning about specific algorithms, data structures, etc. is important but more important (from a practical point of view) is the knowledge of how algorithms or data structures perform, how they can be analyzed, what affects their performance, etc. If you got the basics, you can always open a book by yourself and learn more algorithms and data structures, and it's probably a good idea.
Finally, a useful set of things to know in today's software world is: networking (esp. TCP/IP and HTTP), C, Java / C# or both, minimal knowledge of Javascript, and a little experience with programmatic access to XML
I am currently taking a year off between high school and college (computer science).
I'm pretty good with Visual basic (unfortunately, this is the only language my school offered in High School). I've dabbled in some PHP, and have pretty good knowledge of broad programming principals and concepts.
I'm more interested in web programming then conventional, but I'd like to do both.
What are some good languages I should pick up over this next eight months, and what are some good, (tough but attainable) goals I should set for myself in this time frame?
Thanks!
If it's web programming you're after, you have three top contenders at the moment for web development (in no particular order):
ASP.Net
Ruby on Rails
PHP
If you've been schooled on VB, the ASP.Net might offer the most familiar development environment, but all three are very marketable.
As far as personal development and goal-setting is concerned and given you only have 8 months to work with, I'd say you want to get intimate with the following concepts and how the work in practice:
unit testing
CSS
JavaScript
See if you can write your first practical application. This will set you up incredibly well for future employment if you can say you actually delivered something (grades are good, but delivery and experience is better).
If you really want to aim high, see if you can secure a casual part-time job at a software shop.
Ruby on Rails is pretty cool and easy to learn esp. if you are after web development.
AJAX can help you with giving your web page some cool features.
I would suggest you to get the book : Agile Development with Ruby on Rails. It will help you get started.
You may want to focus on the language that the college you will be attending will be teaching their low-level classes in. this way, you can have a bit of a head start on the class, giving you more time for your other classes.
I think most colleges currently start off in Java. You should be able to find that out with a bit of research.
If it is good grades and ease of programming in college you seek, learn the language of choice of the school you plan on attending. Most schools stick with one primary language for the introductory classes as many universities teach conceptual programming. I think the most common languages right now for universities to teach are Java and C++ as both offer good, cross-platform introductions into object-oriented concepts such as polymorphism and aggregation.
If you are attending a technical college or community college for an associates degree, those are normally more applied and teach "how to program a website with PHP" or similar. In that case, you may focus on the fundamentals of the class such as how do web application work, learn about compilers and how they work, etc. Things they won't teach you but are valuable to know in the real world.
If you want to parlay this knowledge into a job writing web applications, you must consider where you may work. Different industries have accepted different languages. Many young businesses and industries accept newer languages such as PHP, Ruby, etc. Some shops are purely Windows (there are a lot) and do much of their web apps in .NET. Then there are still a number of middleware-based solutions such as WebSphere, WebLogic, JBoss, etc. There are also some in-between things that are still web focused such as PeopleTools programming. You may also consider learning about web application scaling.
If I were you, I would focus on a primary skill you already posess, and nurture that so that you become highly skilled. You can't master everything, but being an expert in something makes you desirable.
Hope this helps.
Read some books.
The Pragmatic Programmer. From Journeyman to Master, Thomas, Hunt - to make your brain think in a pragmatic way, not PHP or other technology way. PHP or Ruby will die, the knowledge from this book won't as it's universal.
Apprenticeship Patterns, Hoover, Oshineye - to plan your career, get to know what's important, what to avoid and what to do to make yourself better.
Personally, I'd start looking at data structures and algorithms, they are the building blocks of good computer science knowledge, as most of them will make use of the majority of features of any given programming language, and as you learn to implement these in the chosen language, you'll get to grips with the programming language.
I heartily agree with Muad'Dib. Look at what language the course is using, and start using that language. If it's C++, then you can get utilities like Cygwin for Windows where you can develop in a virtual linux box without having to re-wipe your computer.
If it's Visual Studio stuff, then there's the MSDN Express stuff that's free from Microsoft, although it's a bit of a download.
Also, the Pragmatic Programmer is a MUST READ! It's full of great advice, and you're at the very best stage to start picking up good habits, start doing that now, and you'll go far in the programming world.
Hope that helps.
I'm currently taking a year off between high school and college. I'm working as a junior IT technician, so I'm getting plenty of experience on the hardware side of things. I want to use this year off to also get started on some programming; I have experience in Visual basic from high school courses, but want to further my learning before going to school. Now, obviously I will not be able to become overly proficient in all of these, but these are the languages that I plan on learning over the course of the next few years:
PHP
Ruby (on Rails)
Python
(Objective) C__ (I'll research my college program and see what C they use, and learn that)
Java
Lisp
Will being proficient in these languages give me a good base to work from? I tried to pick a selection of languages that seem to offer good employability, ability to develop on a number of platforms (desktop, web, mobile), and ones that are currently popular and sought-after.
Am I missing anything? Does anyone see anything important that I've missed, things I've picked that are a waste of time, or otherwise?
Thanks a lot guys.
I don't know if you've read the Pragmatic Programmer (a great read) But there's a section in there on expanding your knowledge portfolio, and they suggest learning one language a year, and I must confess I agree with them.
So I would work out what you want to write, and then pick the language that fulfills the requirements you want. And as you're going to college, I would also consider what language that the course you're attending is going to be teaching. I'd most certainly place my effort in to learning that language.
I'd also recommend (assuming they're going to let you use linux) learning a scripting language, such as BASH, and learn to create make or build files in your chosen environment, it's a heck of a lot easier than remembering compiler options.
Python is good to start with and then do Java. It would be enough for a starter on my opinion.
If you thought of learing php instead then learn mysql too. And more over you have overall missed the database. :(
Atleast learn my sql or ms sql of your choice.
I am working on a new language, targeted for web development, embeding into applications, distributed applications, high-reliability software (but this is for distant future).
Also, it's target to reduce development expenses in long term - more time to write safer code and less support later. And finally, it enforces many things that real teams have to enforce - like one crossplatform IDE, one codestyle, one web framework.
In short, the key syntax/language features are:
Open source, non-restrictive licensing. Surely crossplatform.
Tastes like C++ but simpler, Pythonic syntax with strict & static type checking. Easier to learn, no multiple inheritance and other things which nobody know anyway :-)
LLVM bytecode/compilation backend gives near-C speed.
Is has both garbage collection & explicit object destruction.
Real OS threads, native support of multicore computers. Multithreading is part of language, not a library.
Types have the same width on any platform. int(32), long(64) e.t.c
Built in post and preconditions, asserts, tiny unit tests. You write a method - you can write all these things in 1 place, so you have related things in one place. If you worry that your class sourcecode will be bloated with this - it's IDEs work to hide what you don't need now.
Java-like exception handling (i.e. you have to handle all exceptions)
I guess I'll leave web & cluster features for now...
What you think? Are there any existing similar languages which I missed?
To summarize: You language has no real selling points. It just does what a dozen other languages already did, with syntax and semantics just slightly off, depending on where the programmer comes from. This may be a good thing, as it makes the language easier to adapt, but you also have to convince people to trouble to switch. All this stuff has to be built and debugged and documented again, tools have to be programmed, people have to learn it and convince their pointy-haired bosses to use it, etc. "So it's language X with a few features from Y and nicer syntax? But it won't make my application's code 15% shorter and cleaner, it won't free me from boilerplate X, etc - and it won't work with my IDE." The last one is important. Tools matter. If there are no good tools for a language, few people will shy away, rightfully so.
And finally, it enforces many things that real teams have to enforce - like one crossplatform IDE, one codestyle, one web framework.
Sounds like a downside! How does the language "enforce one X"? How do you convince programmers this coding style is the one true style? Why shouldn't somebody go and replace the dog slow, hardly maintained, severly limited IDE you "enforce" with something better? How could one web framework possibly fit all applications? Programmers rarely like to be forced into X, and they are sometimes right.
Also, you language will have to talk to others. So you have ready-made standard solutions for multithreading and web development in mind? Maybe you should start with a FFI instead. Python can use extensions written in C or C++, use dynamic libraries through ctypes, and with Cython it's amazingly simple to wrap any given C library with a Python interface. Do you have any idea how many important libraries are written in C? Unless your language can use these, people can hardly get (real-world) stuff done with it. Just think of GUI. Most mayor GUI toolkits are C or C++. And Java has hundreds of libraries (the other JVM languages profit much from Java interop) for many many purposes.
Finally, on performance: LLVM can give you native code generation, which is a huge plus (performance-wise, but also because the result is standalone), but the LLVM optimizers are limited, too. Don't expect it to beat C. Especially not hand-tuned C compiled via icc on Intel CPUs ;)
"Are there any existing similar
languages which I missed?"
D? Compared to your features:
The compiler has a dual license - GPL and Artistic
See example code here.
LDC targets LLVM. Support for D version 2 is under development.
Built-in garbage collection or explicit memory management.
core.thread
Types
Unit tests / Pre and Post Contracts
try/catch/finally exception handling plus scope guarantees
Responding to a few of your points individually (I've omitted what I consider either unimportant or good):
targeted for web development
Most people use php. Not because it's the best language available, that's for sure.
embeding into applications
Lua.
distributed applications, high-reliability software (but this is for distant future).
Have you carefully studied Erlang, both its design and its reference implementation?
it enforces many things that real teams have to enforce - like one crossplatform IDE, one codestyle, one web framework.
If your language becomes successful, people will make other IDEs, other code styles, other web frameworks.
Multithreading is part of language, not a library.
Really good languages for multithreading forbid side effects inside threads. Yes, in practice that pretty much means Erlang only.
Types have the same width on any platform. int(32), long(64) e.t.c
Sigh... There's only one reasonable width for integers outside of machine-level languages like C: infinite.
Designing your own language will undoubtedly teach you someting. But designing a good language is like designing a good cryptosystem: lots of amateurs try, but it takes an expert to do it well.
I suggest you read some of Norman Ramsey's answers here on programming language design, starting with this thread.
Given your interest in distributed applications, knowing Erlang is a must. As for sequential programming, the minimum is one imperative language and one functional language (ideally both Lisp/Scheme and Haskell, but F# is a good start). I also recommend knowing at least one high-level language that doesn't have objects, just so you understand that not having objects can often make the programmer's life easier (because objects are complex).
As for what could drive other people to learn your language... Good tools/libraries/frameworks can't hurt (FORTRAN, php), and a big company setting the example can't hurt (Java, C#). Good design doesn't seem to be much of a factor (a ha-ha-only-serious joke has it that what makes a language successful is using {braces} to delimit blocks: C, C++, Java, C#, php)...
What you've given us is a list of features, with no coherent philosophy, or explanation as to how they will work together. None of the features are unique. At best, you're offering incremental improvements over what's already there. I'd expect there's already languages kicking around with what you've said, it's just that they're still fairly obscure, because they didn't make it.
Languages have inertia. People have to learn new languages, and sometimes new tools. They need incentive to do so, and 20% improvement in a few features doesn't cut it.
What you need, at a minimum, is a killer app and a form of elevator pitch. (The "elevator pitch" is what you tell the higher-ups about your project when you're in the elevator with them, in current US business parlance.) You need to have your language be obviously worth learning for some purpose, and you need to be able to tell people why it's worth learning before they think "just another language by somebody who wanted to write a language" and go away.
You need to form a language community. That community needs to have some localization at first: people who work in X big company, people who want to do Y, whatever. Decide on what that community is likely to be, and come up with one big reason to switch and some reasons to believe that your language can deliver what it promises.
No.
Every buzzword you have included in your feature list is an enormous amount of work to be spec'd, implemented, documented, and tested.
How many people will be actively developing the language? I guess the web is full of failed programming language projects. (Same is true for non-mainstream OSes)
Have a look at what .Net/Visual Studio or Java/Eclipse have accomplished. That's 1000s of years of specification, development, tests, documentation, feedback, bug fixes, service packs.
During my last job I heard about somebody who wrote his own programming framework, because it was "better". The resulting program code (both in the framework and in the applications) is certainly unmaintainable once the original programmer quits, or is "hit by a bus", as the saying goes.
As the list sounds like Java++ or Mono++, you'd probably be more successful in engaging in an existing project, even if it won't have your name tag on it.
Perhaps you missed one key term. Performance.
In any case, unless this new language has some really out-of-this-world features(ex: 100% increase in performance over other web development languages), I think it will be yet another fish in the pond.
Currently I'm responsible for maintaining a framework developed/owned by my company. It's a nightmare. Unless there is a mainstream community, working on this full time, it's really an elephant. I do not appreciate my company's decision to develop its own framework(because it's supposed to be "faster") day 'n night.
The language tastes good in my opinion, I don't want use java for a simple website but I would like to have types and things like that. ASP .NET is a problem because of licensing and I can't afford those licenses for a single website... Also features looks good
Remember a lot of operator overloading: I think is the biggest thing that PHP is actually missing. It allows classes to behave much more like basic types :)
When you have something to test I'll love to help you with it! Thanks
Well, if you have to reinvent the wheel, you can go for it :)
I am not going to give you any examples of languages or language features, but I will give you one advice instead:
Supporting framework is what is the most important thing. People will tend to love it or hate it, depending on how easy is to write good code that get job done. Therefore, please do usability test before releasing it. I mean ask several people how they will do certain task and create API accordingly. Then test beta API on other coders and listen carefully to their comments.
Regards and good luck :)
There's always space for another programming language. Apart from getting the design right, I think the biggest problem is coming across as just another wannabe language. So you may want to look at your marketing, you need a big sponsor who can integrate your language into their products, or you need to generate a buzz around it, easiest way is astroturfing. Good luck.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programming_languages
NB the names G and G++ aren't taken. Oh and watch out for the patent trolls.
Edit
Oops G / G++ are taken... still there are plenty more letters left.
This sounds more like a "systems" language rather than a "web development language". The major languages in this category (other than C++/C) are D and Go.
My advice to you would be to not start from scratch but examine the possibility of creating tools or libraries for those languages, and seeing just how far you can push them.
Does anybody know of any research or benchmarks of how long it takes to develop the same application in a variety of languages? Really I'm looking for Java vs. C++ but any comparisons would be useful. I have the feeling there is a section in Code Complete about this but my copy is at work.
Edit:
There are a lot of interesting answers to this question but it seems like there is a lack of really good research. I have made a proposal over at meta about this problem.
Pratt & Whitney, purveyors of jet engines for civilian and military applications, did a study on this many years ago, without actually intending to do the study.
They went on the same metrics kick everyone else went on in the 1990s. They collected a bunch of data about their jet engine controller projects, including timecard data. They crunched it. The poor sap who got to crunch the data noticed something in the results: the military projects uniformly had twice the programmer productivity and one/fourth the defect density as the civilian projects.
This, by itself, is significant. It means you only need half as many programmers, and you aren't going to spend quite as much time fixing bugs. What is even more important is that this was an apples-to-apples comparison. A jet engine controller is a jet engine controller.
He then went looking for candidate explanations. All of the usual candidates: individual experience, team size, toolsets, software processes, requirements stability, everything, were trotted out, and they were ruled out when it was seen that the story on those items was uniformly the same on both sides of the aisle. At the end of the day, only one statistically significant difference showed up.
The civilian projects were written in every language you could think of. The military projects were all written in Ada.
IN EVERY SINGLE CASE, against every other comer, for jet engine controllers at Pratt & Whitney, using Ada gave double the productivity and one/fourth the defect density.
I know what the flying code monkeys are going to say. "You can do good work in any language." In theory, that's true. In practice, however, it appears that, at least at Pratt & Whitney, language made a difference.
Last I heard about this, Pratt & Whitney upper management decreed that ALL jet engine controller projects would be done in Ada.
No, I don't have a citation. No paper was ever written. My source on this story was the poor sap who crunched the numbers. Here's a similar study from 1995:
http://archive.adaic.com/intro/ada-vs-c/cada_art.html
This, incidentally, was BEFORE Boeing did the 777, and BEFORE the 777 brake subcontractor story happened. But that's another story.
One of the few funded scientific studies that I'm aware of on cross-language productivity, from the early 90s, funded by ARPA and the ONR,
Haskell vs. Ada Vs. C++ vs Awk vs ... An Experiment in Software Prototyping Productivity, Hudak & Jones, 1994.
We describe the results of an
experiment in which several
conventional programming languages,
together with the functional language
Haskell, were used to prototype a
Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC)
requirement for a Geometric Region
Server. The resulting programs and
development metrics were reviewed by a
committee chosen by the Navy. The
results indicate that the Haskell
prototype took significantly less time
to develop and was considerably more
concise and easier to understand than
the..
This article(a pdf) has some benchmarks (note that it's from 2000) between C, C++, Perl, Java, Perl, Python, Rexx and Tcl.
Some common wisdom I believe holds true (also somewhere within the article):
The number of lines written per hour is independent of the language
Opinion: more important is what is faster for a given developer, for example yourself. What you are used to, will usually be faster. If you are used to 20 years of C++ pitfalls and never skip an uninitialized variable, that will be faster than Java for anybody.
If you remember all parameters of CreateWindowEx() by heart, it will be faster than MFC or winforms.
A couple of anecdotal data points:
On Project Euler, which invites programming solutions to mathematical problems,
the shortest solutions are almost invariably written in J or K, a relative of APL; there are occasionally MatLab solutions in the same range. It can be argued, though, that these languages specialized in math.
runners up were Ruby solutions. A lot of algorithm can be wrapped in very little code, and it's much more legible than J / K.
Python and Haskell solutions also did very well, LOC-wise.
The question asked about "fastest development," not "shortest code." But it's conceivable that shorter solutions are faster to come up with - certainly for slow typists!
There's an annual competition among roboticists. Contestants are given some specs for some hardware, a practical problem to solve in software, and limited time to do so. Again very domain specific, of course. Programmers have their choice of tools, including language of course. Every year, the winning team (often a single person) used Forth.
This admittedly limited sample suggests that "development speed" and "effect of language on speed" is often very dependent on the problem domain.
See also
Are there statistical studies that indicates that Python is "more productive"?
for some discussions about this kind of question.
It would make more sense to benchmark the programmers, not the languages. The time to write a program in any mainstream language depends more on the ability of the programmer in that language than on qualities of that specific language.
I think most benchmarks and statements on this topic will mean very little.
Benchmarks can always be gamed; see the history of "Pet Store".
A language that's good at solving one kind of problem might not apply as well to another.
What matters most is the skill of your team, its knowledge of a particular technology, and how well you know the domain you're trying to solve.
UPDATE: Control software for jet engines and helicopters is a very specialized subset of computing problems. It's characterized by very rigorous, complete, detailed specs and QA that means the multi-million dollar aircraft cannot crash.
I can second the (very good) citation by John Strohm of Pratt & Whitney control software written in Ada. The control software for Kaman helicopters sold to Australia was also written in Ada.
But this does not lead to the conclusion that if you decided to write your next web site in Ada that you'd have higher productivity and fewer defects than you would if you chose C# or Java or Python or Ruby. All languages are not equally good in all problem domains.
Language/framework comparison for web applications
The Plat_Forms project provides some information of this type for web applications.
There are three studies with different tasks (done in 2007, 2011, 2012), all of the following format: Several teams of three professional developers implemented the same application under controlled conditions within two days.
It covers Java, Perl, PHP, and Ruby and has multiple teams for each language.
The evaluation reports much more than only development time.
Findings of iteration one for instance included
that experience with the language and framework appeared to be more relevant than what that framework was.
that Java tended to induce teams to make laborious constructions while Perl induced them to make pragmatic (and quite handy) constructions.
Findings of iteration two included
that Ruby on Rails was more productive in this type of project (which due to its duration was more rapid prototyping than full-blown development of a mature application)
and that the one exception to the above rule was the one team using Symfony, a PHP framework that has similar concepts to Ruby on Rails (but still the very different base language underneath it).
Look under http://www.plat-forms.org or search the web for "Plat_Forms".
There is plenty more detail in the reports, in particular the thick techreport on iteration 1.
Most programs have to interface with some other framework. It tends to be a good idea to pick the language that has libraries specifically for what you are trying to do. For instance are you trying to build a distributed redundant messaging system? If so I would use Erlang. Are you trying to make a quick and dirty data driven website, use Ruby and Rails. You get the idea. Real time DirectX where performance is key, C++/C/Asm.
If you are writing something that is algorithm based I would look to a functional language like Haskell, although it has a very high learning curve.
This question is a little old fashioned. Focusing on development time solely based on the choice of language is of limited value. There are so many other factors that have equal or more impact than the language itself:
The libraries or frameworks available / used.
The level of quality required (ie. defect count).
The type of application (eg. GUI, server, driver etc...)
The level of maintainability required.
Developer experience in the language.
The platform or OS the application is built on.
As an example, many would say Java is the better choice over C++ to build enterprise (line of business) applications. This is not normally because of the language itself, but instead it is perceived that Java has better (or more mature) web server and database frameworks available to it. This may or may not be true, but that is beside the point.
You may even find that the building an application using the same language on different operating systems or platforms gives greatly differing development time. For example using C++ on Linux to build a GUI application may take longer than a Windows based GUI application using C++ because of less extensive and mature GUI libraries avaialble on Linux (once again this is debatable).
According to Norvig, Lutz Prechelt published just such an article in the October 1999 CACM: "Comparing Java vs. C/C++ Efficiency Issues to Interpersonal Issues".
Norvig includes a link to that article. Unfortunately, the ACM, despite having a bitmap graphic proclaiming their goal of "Advancing Computing as a Science & Profession", couldn't figure out how to maintain stable links on their webpage, so it's just a 404 now. Perhaps your local library could help you out.
That Ada story might be an embellished version of this: http://www.adaic.com/whyada/ada-vs-c/cada_art.html
Erlang vs C++/Corba
"... As the Erlang DCC is less than a quarter of the size of a similar C++/CORBA implementation, the product development in Erlang should be fast, and the code maintainable. We conclude that Erlang and associated libraries are suitable for the rapid development of maintainable and highly reliable distributed products."
Paper here
There's a reason why there are no real comparisons in that aspect, except for anecdotal evidence (which can be found in favor of almost any language).
Actually writing code takes relatively small portion of developer's time. Even if language lets you cut coding time in half, it will be barely noticeable by the time project ends. Design, structure of program, development process are all much more important, and then there are libraries, tools and experience with them.
Some languages are better suited for certain development processes than the others, so if you've settled on design and process you can decide which language will be more efficient - but not before.
(didn't notice there's a similar answer already, so feel free to ignore this)